Focus+Recompose vs. Joystick Point Selection

mediacop

Active member
Messages
88
Reaction score
19
Location
US
Please tell me what I'm missing here regarding the addition of a focus point selection joystick. I have always used back button focus and then recomposed. It's extremely quick and accurate. Selecting composition and then using a joystick to move the focus point seems to be slower. Yet the rumors say the X-T2 will have the joystick and some swear by this method.

What am I missing here?

Thanks in advance.

Larry
 
I frequently use focus and recompose for speed. In fact, it's my default technique. However, when using very shallow DOF it can lead to slightly missed focus so moving the focus point is often a better option in these situations. Because of this, some consider focus and recompose to be a bad habit carried forward from an earlier time. I consider it to be just another technique to keep in your toolbox and use depending on the given situation.
 
Please tell me what I'm missing here regarding the addition of a focus point selection joystick. I have always used back button focus and then recomposed. It's extremely quick and accurate. Selecting composition and then using a joystick to move the focus point seems to be slower. Yet the rumors say the X-T2 will have the joystick and some swear by this method.

What am I missing here?

Thanks in advance.

Larry
It all depends on what aperture you're using for your shots. At smaller apertures, it probably won't matter much (except with very long lenses). However, when your DOF is shallow as with a very large aperture lens, like the 56 f/1.2 or with a long lens like the 100-400 at close range, then recomposing can throw off critical focus. It might be subtle, but with a portrait, it could be the difference betwee a tack sharp image and one that's a bit soft.

Like any others, I often use focus and recompose for time and convenience. However, I do try to be cognizant of the aperture I'm shooting at the the need or desire for an OOF background. In those cases, I will move the focus point and try to minimize camera movement between composition and taking the shot. Even for the few times that you need to do this, the joystick is a huge convenience and a lot less unwieldy than the buttons we're using on the X-T1 today. I was definitely spoiled by the Canon 7D I used previously and was very excited to hear that Fuji was adding a joystick to the X-T2's controls.
 
Yes, stopped down a little and at a reasonable distance, F+R is ok, else point selection is the way to go. It's why Face / Eye Detection is popular, auto point selection plus ability to recompose. Nothing more irritating than taking a risk with F+R and fudging it.
 
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.

Those who swear by the joystick refer to it being better than tapping the buttons a bunch of time; remember there are far more AF points on the new sensor so using the d-pad would be even more time consuming.

If you are happy with focus and recompose on your current camera then you will have happy with it on the new one.
 
Joystick could be much faster and the only way it works.

Today I was shooting at a Kite event. I know where the Kiter is, I know where the waves are, where the sky is, the Kite lines and the Kite, so I know the Rider must be at the bottom left. So with that I set the area to this. Recompose would take much more time and I would miss the moment of the tricks and it would be definitly out of focus.

And I used CH. With that you can't use the recompose method.
 
In addition to what others have said, moving the focus point is an excellent option when shooting from a tripod where F&R isn't that feasible.

One potential argument against moving the focus point is that metering and focusing isn't always coupled, which will depend on the camera used. Often, when spot metering, one wants to meter off the subject that is in focus, but with some cameras, metering is done at the frame center, not where the focus point is.
 
Both techniques have their moment. While setting the point with the joystick, you can simultaneously accomplish approximate composition.
 
this is something that surprised me. I bought the xp2 for the ovf. I had heard about the joystick and knew I would try it but never really expected it to be of any real use. I was wrong.

Once you try it I expect you'll like it. Other than that I have no wisdom to share.
 
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.
12 years ago, my Canon 20D with 9 AF points and 8Mp already had a joystick. Fuji, what took you so long?

Actually, if you consider only the recent Fuji models with phase-detect AF points, it's clear that they've really made a lot of really bad user interface design decisions in the in the interest of looking retro. For example, they've admitted that the vertically straight thumb-rest on the back of the XT-1 is ergonomically incorrect. If you look at the X-T2, it now has a slant to accommodate the natural slant of the thumb when holding a camera. There's no reason why it had to take revision 2 to correct this.
 
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.
12 years ago, my Canon 20D with 9 AF points and 8Mp already had a joystick. Fuji, what took you so long?

Actually, if you consider only the recent Fuji models with phase-detect AF points, it's clear that they've really made a lot of really bad user interface design decisions in the in the interest of looking retro. For example, they've admitted that the vertically straight thumb-rest on the back of the XT-1 is ergonomically incorrect. If you look at the X-T2, it now has a slant to accommodate the natural slant of the thumb when holding a camera. There's no reason why it had to take revision 2 to correct this.
Simply because getting the UI right often takes multiple tries and a lot of feedback from users. Take a look at Sony, who has had some of the world's worst UIs in their cameras (and other consumer electronics for that matter). They are gradually improving, as evidenced by some of their latest cameras, but they still suck in relation to many other cameras out there, most certainly including Fuji IMHO.

I'm glad that Fuji is learning from their mistakes and improving their UI as the models evolve. Better that than the "designed by engineers" UI that some other manufacturers have employed and have only very slowly improved.
 
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.
12 years ago, my Canon 20D with 9 AF points and 8Mp already had a joystick. Fuji, what took you so long?

Actually, if you consider only the recent Fuji models with phase-detect AF points, it's clear that they've really made a lot of really bad user interface design decisions in the in the interest of looking retro. For example, they've admitted that the vertically straight thumb-rest on the back of the XT-1 is ergonomically incorrect. If you look at the X-T2, it now has a slant to accommodate the natural slant of the thumb when holding a camera. There's no reason why it had to take revision 2 to correct this.
Simply because getting the UI right often takes multiple tries and a lot of feedback from users. Take a look at Sony, who has had some of the world's worst UIs in their cameras (and other consumer electronics for that matter). They are gradually improving, as evidenced by some of their latest cameras, but they still suck in relation to many other cameras out there, most certainly including Fuji IMHO.

I'm glad that Fuji is learning from their mistakes and improving their UI as the models evolve. Better that than the "designed by engineers" UI that some other manufacturers have employed and have only very slowly improved.
Cameras have been around for centuries. It is pretty well known what a good UI looks like, yet every manufacturer is trying to reinvent the wheel, mostly to distinguish themselves from the rest. But it often doesn't work out that well, just like car manufacturers who constantly change the UI just to look snazzy without much consideration of functionality. But then again, if every camera looked the same, then it would be a bit boring. But I'd take boring over "difficult to use".
 
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.
12 years ago, my Canon 20D with 9 AF points and 8Mp already had a joystick. Fuji, what took you so long?

Actually, if you consider only the recent Fuji models with phase-detect AF points, it's clear that they've really made a lot of really bad user interface design decisions in the in the interest of looking retro. For example, they've admitted that the vertically straight thumb-rest on the back of the XT-1 is ergonomically incorrect. If you look at the X-T2, it now has a slant to accommodate the natural slant of the thumb when holding a camera. There's no reason why it had to take revision 2 to correct this.
Simply because getting the UI right often takes multiple tries and a lot of feedback from users.
I would disagree since it doesn't take a rocket scientist or user feedback to realize that there are UI elements that are universally incorrect. If it doesn't fit a human hand, you don't need your customers to tell you that. Fuji tried to disregard modern ergonomics, modelling their bodies on film bodies from the past with outdated handling.
 
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.
12 years ago, my Canon 20D with 9 AF points and 8Mp already had a joystick. Fuji, what took you so long?

Actually, if you consider only the recent Fuji models with phase-detect AF points, it's clear that they've really made a lot of really bad user interface design decisions in the in the interest of looking retro. For example, they've admitted that the vertically straight thumb-rest on the back of the XT-1 is ergonomically incorrect. If you look at the X-T2, it now has a slant to accommodate the natural slant of the thumb when holding a camera. There's no reason why it had to take revision 2 to correct this.
Doesn't really matter because a thumb rest at the side of the camera is ergonomically inferior to one that is closer to the hotshoe like you get with an accessory thumb grip.

All cameras go through ergonomic revisions.
 
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.
12 years ago, my Canon 20D with 9 AF points and 8Mp already had a joystick. Fuji, what took you so long?

Actually, if you consider only the recent Fuji models with phase-detect AF points, it's clear that they've really made a lot of really bad user interface design decisions in the in the interest of looking retro. For example, they've admitted that the vertically straight thumb-rest on the back of the XT-1 is ergonomically incorrect. If you look at the X-T2, it now has a slant to accommodate the natural slant of the thumb when holding a camera. There's no reason why it had to take revision 2 to correct this.
Simply because getting the UI right often takes multiple tries and a lot of feedback from users.
I would disagree since it doesn't take a rocket scientist or user feedback to realize that there are UI elements that are universally incorrect. If it doesn't fit a human hand, you don't need your customers to tell you that. Fuji tried to disregard modern ergonomics, modelling their bodies on film bodies from the past with outdated handling.
And yet, that very aspect of their design is what's very appealing to many photographers who came out of that era. I've owned film cameras in the past, but photography as a primary hobby didn't really happen until the digital era (with DSLRs). In spite of that, I really appreciate what Fuji has done in utilizing some of the analog controls (dials) found in legacy cameras but doing so in a way that improves, rather than degrades the usability of the camera (at least IMHO). I far prefer that design to the menu intensive UI that so many other manufacturers have adopted. I'm sure we not on the same page here, but I largely like Fuji's ergonomics -- much more so than the Canon cameras I used for 10 odd years previously.

That said, basic ergonomic issues like the thumb rest design are not excusable, and there's plenty of room for improvement in other areas as well. Overall, though, I guess my view on Fuji's ergonomics is probably a lot more positive than yours.
 
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.
12 years ago, my Canon 20D with 9 AF points and 8Mp already had a joystick. Fuji, what took you so long?

Actually, if you consider only the recent Fuji models with phase-detect AF points, it's clear that they've really made a lot of really bad user interface design decisions in the in the interest of looking retro. For example, they've admitted that the vertically straight thumb-rest on the back of the XT-1 is ergonomically incorrect. If you look at the X-T2, it now has a slant to accommodate the natural slant of the thumb when holding a camera. There's no reason why it had to take revision 2 to correct this.
Simply because getting the UI right often takes multiple tries and a lot of feedback from users. Take a look at Sony, who has had some of the world's worst UIs in their cameras (and other consumer electronics for that matter). They are gradually improving, as evidenced by some of their latest cameras, but they still suck in relation to many other cameras out there, most certainly including Fuji IMHO.
To get a good UI you first have to get a user to help in the design. For a camera that would mean a committee composed of real photographers - each representing different aspects of photography, street, landscape, sports, advertising, studio, etc.

Sony's problem seems to be they have allowed S/W engineers to design what they think a photographer Just "has to have" vs. what a photographer really needs.

I'm glad that Fuji is learning from their mistakes and improving their UI as the models evolve. Better that than the "designed by engineers" UI that some other manufacturers have employed and have only very slowly improved.
I find the Pro2 UI just fine. Normally I am in single shot, single focus and use the center point and focus - hold down the shutter and recompose. Unless you distance from the subject is small even wide open - that is fine. When I use the joystick is when I shooting at the race track and focus on the head horse - which may not be in the center.

With my Nikon I always used the back AF button and always used contentious focus and just released the button and recomposed. I haven't figured out how to exactly do that yet on the Pro2.

The only complaint I have on the Pro2 is the location of the video button. I'll probably just deactivate that button at some point.
 
Within Fuji, just putting the same buttons in approximately the same place between bodies would be a nice inducement to shoot with multiple X bodies. I'm not sure if any of the 6 Fuji's I've had gave me the same button layout at any given time.

But f&c has it moments as moving the focus box does as well. I shoot wide which makes f&c easy. I also shoot close with my close focusing wide lenses and have to move the point.

--
Fuji XP1, XE2, XF-16, 18, 23, 27, 35/1.4, 60 XC16-50
 
Last edited:
Success with focus and recompose depends on how far you recompose and how shallow your depth of field is. The new sensor is higher res which means it will show something as slightly out of focus where it would look in focus on the 16MP sensor.
12 years ago, my Canon 20D with 9 AF points and 8Mp already had a joystick. Fuji, what took you so long?

Actually, if you consider only the recent Fuji models with phase-detect AF points, it's clear that they've really made a lot of really bad user interface design decisions in the in the interest of looking retro. For example, they've admitted that the vertically straight thumb-rest on the back of the XT-1 is ergonomically incorrect. If you look at the X-T2, it now has a slant to accommodate the natural slant of the thumb when holding a camera. There's no reason why it had to take revision 2 to correct this.
Simply because getting the UI right often takes multiple tries and a lot of feedback from users.
I would disagree since it doesn't take a rocket scientist or user feedback to realize that there are UI elements that are universally incorrect. If it doesn't fit a human hand, you don't need your customers to tell you that. Fuji tried to disregard modern ergonomics, modelling their bodies on film bodies from the past with outdated handling.
'Modern' is not synonymous with 'better'. Fuji's ergonomics have been a signature feature of their design and have been very popular. If you use enough different types of cameras you can adapt to them all, though we all still have preferences. I've tried both the analogue approach and the 'modern' menu plus scroll wheel approach. It's entirely personal but for me, I prefer Fuji's dedicated external controls. I can honestly say that I haven't enjoyed many cameras as much as the XT1. Modern or not, vive la difference.

Cheers, Rod
 
'Modern' is not synonymous with 'better'. Fuji's ergonomics have been a signature feature of their design and have been very popular. If you use enough different types of cameras you can adapt to them all, though we all still have preferences. I've tried both the analogue approach and the 'modern' menu plus scroll wheel approach. It's entirely personal but for me, I prefer Fuji's dedicated external controls. I can honestly say that I haven't enjoyed many cameras as much as the XT1. Modern or not, vive la difference.
Perfectly sums up my feelings as well, Rod. I never really enjoyed photography nearly to the extent I do now largely because the X-T1 is simply a blast to work with and to use. It's hard to pin down exactly why, but the camera and controls are incredibly intuitive and easy to use, and most importantly, fun.

The X-T2 looks like a real winner because Fuji appears to have addressed a number of the things about the T1 design that I found irritating (the lack of a joystick for example). Looks to be even more fun to use, and with the enhancements in AF and other areas, a lot more versatile as well.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top