Be Careful When Ordering Cameras From Outside The USA (or Canada)

Edmund Dorf · Mar 15, 2016

Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

yahoo2u · Mar 15, 2016

Edmund Dorf said:
Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

25p vs 30p is in the manual....a quick read of a free pdf manual.

No-one in the world sells a USA model camera, well known.

Wasting your time sending the seller a message, they are not selling US models.

Edmund Dorf · Mar 15, 2016

It says in two places that the camera can record 4K video at 30/24p. In fact the camera they sent me can only record 4K video in 25/24p. Clearly a misrepresentation.

Take a look:

Loading…

www.ebay.com

yahoo2u · Mar 15, 2016

Edmund Dorf said:
It says in two places that the camera can record 4K video at 30/24p. In fact the camera they sent me can only record 4K video in 25/24p. Clearly a misrepresentation.

Take a look:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Panason...505801?hash=item21035f6b49:g:SKsAAOSwDuJW0~1p

Reading their wording it says...."....GX8 is able to record 4K UHD movies at 30 or 24 fps"..

The "or" covers that equation. If they had said ".....24 and 30" then that would be wrong.

dennis tennis · Mar 15, 2016

yahoo2u said:
Edmund Dorf said:

It says in two places that the camera can record 4K video at 30/24p. In fact the camera they sent me can only record 4K video in 25/24p. Clearly a misrepresentation.

Take a look:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Panason...505801?hash=item21035f6b49:g:SKsAAOSwDuJW0~1p

Click to expand...

Reading their wording it says...."....GX8 is able to record 4K UHD movies at 30 or 24 fps"..

The "or" covers that equation. If they had said ".....24 and 30" then that would be wrong.

Karld70 · Mar 15, 2016

Edmund Dorf said:
Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

It is common for sellers to try and sell a gray market camera and be a little misleading. Always ask if it records video in NTSC or PAL format.

I agree, the wording is not clear, it really should not have the 30p in the listing in this case.

tkbslc · Mar 15, 2016

Edmund Dorf said:
Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

Pretty much only North America and Japan use NTSC and 30/60fps video. If you aren't ordering from Japan or North America, it's 99.9% chance it is going to be 25/50fps.

I would also triple check the display languages. Some camera makers, namely Panasonic, have been known to leave English off the list of languages for their Japanese models.

dennis tennis · Mar 15, 2016

tkbslc said:
Edmund Dorf said:

Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

Click to expand...

Pretty much only North America and Japan use NTSC and 30/60fps video. If you aren't ordering from Japan or North America, it's 99.9% chance it is going to be 25/50fps.

I would also triple check the display languages. Some camera makers, namely Panasonic, have been known to leave English off the list of languages for their Japanese models.

Sony models sold in Japan do not come with English. If you want English you have to pay extra.

Ian Stuart Forsyth · Mar 15, 2016

dennis tennis said:
tkbslc said:

Edmund Dorf said:

Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

Click to expand...

Pretty much only North America and Japan use NTSC and 30/60fps video. If you aren't ordering from Japan or North America, it's 99.9% chance it is going to be 25/50fps.

I would also triple check the display languages. Some camera makers, namely Panasonic, have been known to leave English off the list of languages for their Japanese models.

Click to expand...

Sony models sold in Japan do not come with English. If you want English you have to pay extra.

MatsP · Mar 16, 2016

Edmund Dorf said:
Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

If the US adapted the PAL standard that most of the world uses there would be no problem (and why not meters and kilograms as well)

But joking aside, in the digital age, does it really matter? A modern TV-set should be able to show 25, as well as 24 and 30 fps. Internet doesn't care anyway and not computers either.

Tom Caldwell · Mar 16, 2016

I suppose that when you buy electrical gear from the US it always comes with US plugs and a US power pack. Luckily most power packs are multiple voltage these days and local cords and plugs are easy to find.

Hen3ry · Mar 16, 2016

…is aimed at -- ask about the specific capabilities you are interested in.

You want 30 FPS nor 24, ask specifically, does the camera they will send you do 30 FPS?

Henry Richardson · Mar 16, 2016

MatsP said:
If the US adapted the PAL standard that most of the world uses there would be no problem (and why not meters and kilograms as well)

--
Henry Richardson

http://www.bakubo.com

Karld70 · Mar 16, 2016

MatsP said:
Edmund Dorf said:

Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

Click to expand...

If the US adapted the PAL standard that most of the world uses there would be no problem (and why not meters and kilograms as well) But joking aside, in the digital age, does it really matter? A modern TV-set should be able to show 25, as well as 24 and 30 fps. Internet doesn't care anyway and not computers either.

Depending on the lighting you are shoting under, I think florescent does it, with the frequency of the ac electricity you can get a pulse, blinking. Once recorded you will see it no matter what you play it back on, so it does matter if you use PAL recorder in USA it not just dealing with playback.

Karld70 · Mar 16, 2016

Edmund Dorf said:
Twice now I've ordered a camera from sellers outside the USA. And twice I've received the European models with video max 25p rather than the 30p that USA cameras are equipped to use.

In each case there was nothing in the wording of the postings to alert me that they were selling non-USA models.

The lesson to be learned is this: if ordering from other countries, send the seller a message and specifically ask which model they are selling.

Not sure why it does not list 60p, not sure what Pal ver would be, I guess 50p

Edmund Dorf · Mar 16, 2016

Good point, however in this case the seller's posting clearly said in two places that the camera records 4K video at 30p. But that is not the case. 30p would be NTSC. This camera produced video at 25p and 25p is PAL.

When I notified the seller, he replied that the cameras they sell (Hong Kong) was a PAL camera.

Seller's description was wrong and I relied on it when I ordered.

Now it is going back and I will order from US sellers from now on.

Edmund Dorf · Mar 16, 2016

PAL is 50p. And I do want 60p for smooth recording at 1920 x 1080.

zuikowesty · Mar 16, 2016

Why this is even an issue today is beyond me. Perhaps this is one way for the manufacturer to protect markets, but it is pretty pathetic. What if you are an ex-pat living outside NA, and want to use your gear while living abroad. They expect you to sell it all when returning to NA?

I would contact Panasonic and ask them if they have an international firmware that supports PAL & NTSC - they certainly should.

I'm currently setting up some pro video production gear at work, and all of it supports PAL/NTSC, and has for years.

Paul Boddie · Mar 16, 2016

yahoo2u said:
Edmund Dorf said:

It says in two places that the camera can record 4K video at 30/24p. In fact the camera they sent me can only record 4K video in 25/24p. Clearly a misrepresentation.

Take a look:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Panason...505801?hash=item21035f6b49:g:SKsAAOSwDuJW0~1p

Click to expand...

Reading their wording it says...."....GX8 is able to record 4K UHD movies at 30 or 24 fps"..

The "or" covers that equation. If they had said ".....24 and 30" then that would be wrong.

In fact, the common English word "or" provides what is known as "inclusive or" in logic, meaning that both of the capabilities may be present and still satisfy the statement.

Now, one could write "either 30 or 24 fps" ("exclusive or"), maybe even adding "but not both" just to be absolutely clear, but even then that would seem an odd thing to write in the context of recording movies since one isn't recording movies at two frame rates at the same time (unless you record at the lowest common multiple of the two frame rates and then re-sample). But we might get what they mean, at least.

So, they could have written that in the context of the specifications of each individual unit, but I rather think that we have now spent more time thinking about the text than the average eBay peddler who writes such stuff can be bothered to do themselves.

Corkcampbell · Mar 16, 2016

I that it is obvious that most people who follow these forums are knowledgeable about buying hardware from different regions. I regularly order from overseas (sometimes ordering from US to be sent somewhere else) and I often buy cameras while traveling. I know exactly what I have been getting as do others here. For example, I know that cameras sold in Korea are NTSC and I wouldn't expect someone there to send me a PAL version, even if they had one. Once, I ordered a Sony A65 from Beijing because I needed a model without GPS - the seller went out of his way to make sure I understood that the camera didn't have it, whereas USA (and Hong Kong, among most other regions) included GPS in the body. I had to explain to him why I had to have the specific model and gave him the model number of the non-GPS version. I can't imaging anyone here who would assume that other countries would have USA models available for sale, regardless of what the posting says - many people who post don't really understand the tech specs, and mistakes can be made, especially if they work for a big-box company somewhere that doesn't just specialize in cameras. In fact, in the OP's situation, a simple request to the seller to send a photo (or read the model number and other info shown) on the bottom of the box would have saved us from having to read this "warning."

It is amazing that we occasionally encounter posters who are shocked, "shocked!," that their new domestic Japanese model has Japanese menu language only, or that camera or lens that they ordered from (insert country here) doesn't include a USA warranty, or the AC adapter has round prongs...duh.

--
"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber

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