N1 or M4/3 comparison

Many V2 users are worried about what happens next (even though their existing gear still takes as good photos as it always did) An obvious option is to go to M4/3, as the overall size is not much greater than the N1, except for the 70/300 option.

There have been a few recent posts claiming superiority of N1 or M4/3, but very few examples to back up the claim. I have been testing a Panasonic Gx8 as a possible replacement for V2 and 30-110 and am happy to share a few shots so that anyone interested can comment or make their own decision.

My GX8 currently has a 14-140 zoom attached, and my testing was to compare the AF before I invest in a better M4/3 lens. The V2 with 30-110 is well known for giving high quality images.

All the photos were taken from a rubber boat where the priority is on the focusing ability when the camera is moving rapidly. My experience with GX8 is limited, and I may do better with a bit more practice.

I think EXIF should be visible in all images, the N1 shots were PP'd in LR 5.6 and the GX8 in DXO 10 (as i don't have an LR which opens Panasonic RAWS)

I will say that the experience of using the GX8 is infinitely better than the V2, the quality of the image in the EVF has to be seen to be believed, and the flexibility with which the function buttons/controls on the GX8 can be used just shows how bad the v2 is in that respect. Somehow it also seems easier to frame the shot with a bigger camera.

However, we take photos for the images, and that is what I hope to show.

Please comment...they are not necessarily the best shots, but just a sample from both cameras, and, I think, reasonably representative of what you can expect


N1 (1)


N1 (2)


N1 (3)


GX8 (1)


GX8 (2)


GX8 (3)

Thanks for looking, and for your comments (I will put it on M4/3 forum as well and see what they have to say)

tom

all good shots, but as usual the photographer is the vital ingredient

Thank you tomhongkong, that was a really interesting and useful post. I like the shots too. They give you a feeling of being there and the ones with the matching diagonal sails really work for me. The V2 shots seem to be more green and the GX8 more blue/red, suggesting a white balance difference. Perhaps it was the time of the shots and direction of the sun/boat too. The GX8 images don't have that "thin look" that N1 cameras bar the J5 have.

It looks like this would have been a good test of the focus system in terms of movement around the frame, but how about depth? where the boats rapidly moving towards or away from you? There have been claims that DFD is amazing, but I remain skeptical. Also interesting the Olympus lens was not up to the job.

I held a GX8 is a shop recently and while I like the size in the hand better than my V1, the overall feel was not there for me. I don't know what it is about Panasonic cameras, but I just don't seem to gel with them. Unfortunately I didn't get to see the viewfinder working, as I hear it is much improved on the GX7.

I walked away with the impression that the GX8 is better than the GX7, but perhaps not good value in the IQ/CC (IQ for overall size) stakes. The monetary cost and lens selection are good, but N1 better for portability.

Thank you Tom for these pictures (which are superb, by the way).

From what I'm seeing, the V2 did much better than the GX8.

Details are much better. That's very surprising, given the sensor sizes, but that's what I'm seeing. And it seems it's not a lens quality problem: the GW8 pictures look a bit mushy, like if you had shot at high iso, and applied noise reduction. That's very disappointing.

Hi Tom, great set of sailing photos and thank you for sharing. In comparing N1 (3) and GX8 (3), both captured with a shutter speed of 1/1600, the areas around the mast, hatch, the Nikon image seems to have more details and less noise.

on the 5th imge(first image taken using gx8), the image seems a blurry when viewed 100%. is this due to the dreaded shutter shock?

The EXIF for the N1 shots shows V1 not V2?

I notice that this was one of the shots where the shutter control button had been nudged, and it was taken at 1/640 instead of 1/1600. I should not have included it in the post, sorry.

I was using auto electronic shutter (the GX8 selects electronic shutter for those shutter speeds which are subject to shutter shock, ie about 1/50-1/300) so this should not be shutter shock

cheers

tom

Well spotted, I have both so must have used the V1 for that regatta. I think the results are pretty much interchangeable.

tom

Having viewed all 6 images at their full resolution, I would take the N1's shots. The only GX8 shot that looked comparable is the GX8#1. The last two are not sharp and there seems to be some weird color fringing in the last shot?

Here are two more for comparison. Let me know what you think




N1 V2 (4)




GX8 (4)

Both of these have now been converted and processed in the same way in DXO10. Both are slightly cropped. In viewing at 100%, allowance should be made for the bigger image of the GX8.

I really am not at all certain that it is worth while jumping to M4/3!

tom

Both of those look good to me but the GX8 shot seems to be slightly sharper probably due to the "easy focus" orientation of the sailboat. The V2 shot is a more difficult focus shot due to the massive depth being captured. The sail seems pretty sharp though.

That said it would almost seem like the two shots were swapped due to the color signatures? Or maybe it's due to the overcast?

tomhongkong said:

I really am not at all certain that it is worth while jumping to M4/3!

tom

Click to expand...

I think you need to do some comparisons at higher ISOs and less ideal conditions, before making the decision. (interesting that no one on the M43 forum has commented on image quality)

I went through a similar exercise with combinations of V1/V3 70-300cx and kit lens vs the Panasonic G6/GX7 the 14-32 power zoom (slightly better than the kit lens) and the 100-300 with the third party tripod collar fitted to improve stability.

I didn't find it easy to draw any concrete conclusions, but for wildlife photography, I have rarely used the Panasonic GX7 since my tests were done.

I tend to jump from the Nikon 1 straight to my D600, when I am looking for better quality BUT in good bright conditions with base ISO (like your tests) even the D600 images aren't obviously better at normal magnifications.

Cheers,

Graham

Interesting comment. They obviously weren't swapped. Perhaps it's DXO 10 which is applying its standard profile? I didn't look too closely as I am tied up with work. I am just getting to grips with DXO10....haven't read the manual yet.....and it seems to be the lazy man's way of handling PP, with so much automated! However Tom Stirr swears by it, and I am always impressed by his shots.

However I agree, the DOF in this shot is astonishing.

I'll keep on trying for a month or two and maybe post some more when I have learned how to use the focus on the GX8....these were all S, centre spot only, and I think I should be trying CAF

Meanwhile if anyone else is thinking of moving 'up' to M4/3, just look at these images and maybe think again (however it's horses for courses, and this application just suits the N1s....good daylight, sports)

tom

Graham

I really do use these cameras only for taking sailing shots, and the light is almost always good. I very seldom have to go above iso400, and in fact have the V2 set to auto 800 without any problems.

I agree that higher isos could be expected to show a different story.

I am sure you could speculate, as I do, why there is no sensible discussion on IQ in the M4/3 forum.

I thought that gentleman who was fiercely promoting the M4/3 IQ in a discussion on this forum might have had something to say as well! It was his posts which got me going on this comparison.

Good shooting

tom

tomhongkong said:

Graham

I really do use these cameras only for taking sailing shots, and the light is almost always good. I very seldom have to go above iso400, and in fact have the V2 set to auto 800 without any problems.

I agree that higher isos could be expected to show a different story.

I am sure you could speculate, as I do, why there is no sensible discussion on IQ in the M4/3 forum.

I thought that gentleman who was fiercely promoting the M4/3 IQ in a discussion on this forum might have had something to say as well! It was his posts which got me going on this comparison.

Good shooting

tom

Click to expand...

Under good light, I am astonished at how good the Nikon 1s are. Like many I had had dismissed them, until the 70-300 came along, and then began to read what people who actually used them had to say.

I wonder if most of the M43 users haven't looked closely at the images because they "know" the M43 ones will be better. Few people take the nikon 1 seriously.

I often note on the birding based forums when someone is looking for a compact lightweight solution for backpacking, or because of old age or other health reason, that suggestions to look at the Nikon 1 are just completely ignored, and discussions focus entirely on M43.

Good luck with your choice, whichever way it goes.

Cheers,

Graham

tomhongkong said:

Here are two more for comparison. Let me know what you think

N1 V2 (4)

GX8 (4)

Both of these have now been converted and processed in the same way in DXO10. Both are slightly cropped. In viewing at 100%, allowance should be made for the bigger image of the GX8.

I really am not at all certain that it is worth while jumping to M4/3!

tom

Click to expand...

GX8 image is obviosly over-sharpened with visible sharpening artefacts. V2 image is natural and sharp without any artefacts.

tomhongkong said:

Here are two more for comparison. Let me know what you think

N1 V2 (4)

GX8 (4)

Both of these have now been converted and processed in the same way in DXO10. Both are slightly cropped. In viewing at 100%, allowance should be made for the bigger image of the GX8.

I really am not at all certain that it is worth while jumping to M4/3!

tom

Click to expand...

Again, the V2 image is much better, with no artifacts.

The GX8 looks like it had been shot at high iso, and then been applyed noise reduction, and sharpened.

The V2 image is MUCH more natural. Definitely better.

That's very surprising. But that's the way it is.

--
André

tomhongkong said:

I think EXIF should be visible in all images, the N1 shots were PP'd in LR 5.6 and the GX8 in DXO 10 (as i don't have an LR which opens Panasonic RAWS)

Click to expand...

By using the adobe raw to dng converter you can easily use LR 5.6 to process GX8 (dng) raw files. In this way, you can compare V1 (V2) images with GX8 images processed by the same software. André's comment http://www.dpreview.com/members/3743831691 and Zoran K's http://www.dpreview.com/members/2181591556 regarding mushiness of the GX8 images might be due to the different processing.

FWIW: As long as the N1 V3 was not supported by Capture One Pro 9, I was using the route via DNG successfully (using the Adobe raw to dng converter). That converter reads the NEF files and writes a DNG files, which LR can process.

Rudolph

Thanks, that is a useful tip

tom