Final nail in the D400's coffin?

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It's already been discussed here. It's hardly a reason for Nikon to gloat, it just means the 7DII is that much more attractive compared to what Nikon is offering.
Falling price means declining demand; the fact that the 7d ii has come down to the price point of the D7200 is rather shocking.
Nikon cannot discount the D7200 right now because they have excess D7100's they are already selling for less than 60D's. Numbers I've seen indicate 7DII outsells D7200.
Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
Do you think a D400 would sell for the same or less than a D7200? It's not a question of what Canon gets for a 7DII, or how much they make off of those cameras even after they're heavily discounted (I bet it's more right now than Nikon is making off of D610, maybe even more than what Nikon makes off of D750 bodies), it's a question of how much Nikon could make off of a D400.
No one here knows those profit margins; all is speculation.
Then your answer to whether a D7200 would sell for more than a D400 is no, I assume.
Also, saying Nikon knows best isn't supported by the fact that they are not gaining on Canon and are losing market share.
Nikon is holding steady in market share as is Canon, in a declining market. Their relative market share has remained steady for years.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not true.
For every camera Nikon sells they sell at least one lens. Sell more cameras, sell more lenses. Sell a better camera to someone, they likely buy a better lens -- and Nikon's latest DX lens seems aimed at D400 users, not bargain hunters.
Not necessarily. A camera body may be sold to someone who already has the lenses. But yes, in general, the more camera sales, the more lens sales. However the issue is that the market for a D400 is small. If the 7d ii is not selling well, why should Nikon jump into those same waters?
Nikon gained ground on Canon, to the point of being even with them, when Nikon had the D300 and Canon had nothing; now the situation is reversed and Nikon is losing ground on everyone else while Canon is holding steady.

Again, Nikon will of course sell fewer D400 cameras than D7200 cameras, that's not the point. The point is that a D400 user is more than likely to spend more on lenses than a D7200 user.
 
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Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year. (The Canon store has not even taken off the "New" logo from the 7D II webpage, lol)

Looks like Nikon is right and the market for this type of camera is tiny. Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
The rumor mill has a new sensor technology in 1DX MKII. Allegedly also the 5DSR etc to be replaced so soon, logically maybe that new sensor tech filtering down already.

If so, likely it will also result in an upgraded 7DIII?

*IF's and BUT'S* but one explanation.

That would make sense for Canon to be clearing stock to make way for something that would really impact Canon new camera sales, without doubt.

It would be nice.
 
Where does it show anything about pro-DX?
Didn't you see that little bar just under 4x5 and above wet collodion? :-D
 
Calm down Tony, here is the link...

It is $1049 after a mail in rebate. I missed the printer earlier or maybe it got added.

http://www.adorama.com/ICA7DM2Z.html

9b269ef081744c799bbd7f03c5f79532.jpg


If I was not so invested into Nikon this would be tempting. Canon must be hurting, look at this one too!

www.adorama.com/ICASL1K1Z.html

Talk about a way to get started in photography cheap! Heck that printer lists for $399, free SL1 and two lenses, WoW!
A few days ago, there was a discussion here on how it is easier to recommend Canon to a beginner rather than Nikon, because Nikon does not have an affordable entry for high performance pro bodies. You seem to agree with that now. Once you get started, you buy lenses and accessories, that is how Nikon is losing market share.

JC
Some cameras, some lenses, some computers
Agree with what? Why would you recommend a pro body to a beginner?
 
Nikon also have the D7000 and D7100 still available 9 months after release of the D7200. Canon seem to have cleared the stocks of the 7D.
This is an is an interesting point that had not occurred to me. Nikon is trying to sell three bodies to Canon's one. (At least Canon knows how to do inventory planning...)

Canon is not competing against themselves to sell the7DII. That even shows more how much the Canon sales are hurting for the 7DII if they have to discount that much and throw in a printer.

Not a good sign for a D400
 
Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year. (The Canon store has not even taken off the "New" logo from the 7D II webpage, lol)

Looks like Nikon is right and the market for this type of camera is tiny. Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
The rumor mill has a new sensor technology in 1DX MKII. Allegedly also the 5DSR etc to be replaced so soon, logically maybe that new sensor tech filtering down already.

If so, likely it will also result in an upgraded 7DIII?
You're assuming there will be a 7DIII.
*IF's and BUT'S* but one explanation.

That would make sense for Canon to be clearing stock to make way for something that would really impact Canon new camera sales, without doubt.

It would be nice.

--
Wishing You Good Light.
 
Nikon also have the D7000 and D7100 still available 9 months after release of the D7200. Canon seem to have cleared the stocks of the 7D.
This is an is an interesting point that had not occurred to me. Nikon is trying to sell three bodies to Canon's one. (At least Canon knows how to do inventory planning...)

Canon is not competing against themselves to sell the7DII. That even shows more how much the Canon sales are hurting for the 7DII if they have to discount that much and throw in a printer.

Not a good sign for a D400
It's not a good sign for the D7200 either, and that's the point.

Suddenly the 7DII and latest version of Canon's 100-400 looks like my solution to telephoto subjects. Why not? If l have to switch UI with a D7200, then Canon is no longer disadvantaged, plus I get AF-ON button, better AF, and 10 fps.
--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
 
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Why would you recommend a pro body to a beginner?
Point is that a 7DII offers an upgrade path Nikon doesn't have, so it's about recommending a brand rather than a particular camera. FWIW, I just checked out the Canon forum where the 7DII is discussed, and the 70D actually looks like a very good beginner's camera -- also, there appear to be a fair number of happy 7DII users there, a stark contrast to here in that regard.

--
http://imageevent.com/tonybeach/twelveimages
 
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Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year. (The Canon store has not even taken off the "New" logo from the 7D II webpage, lol)

Looks like Nikon is right and the market for this type of camera is tiny. Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
The rumor mill has a new sensor technology in 1DX MKII. Allegedly also the 5DSR etc to be replaced so soon, logically maybe that new sensor tech filtering down already.

If so, likely it will also result in an upgraded 7DIII?
You're assuming there will be a 7DIII.
*IF's and BUT'S* but one explanation.

That would make sense for Canon to be clearing stock to make way for something that would really impact Canon new camera sales, without doubt.

It would be nice.
 
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Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year.
A 7dII for $1050 might make me consider being a dual brand user. So, I went there to find this great deal, and to see why the price is so low. I can't find it for that price. All of the new 7dII that I saw were $1399 for body only.
The price of 1050 is with a mail in rebate, and includes a printer. On the Adorama page I am looking at is says "1049 after mail in rebate."
Do you have a link for that? I looked at one rebate on one of their pages there and it was for something completely different than the 7dII. If the rebate is if I buy a printer with the 7dII, I'm not interested. I don't need another printer.
Okay, I saw your other post that had the link in it and I must say that is quite a remarkable sale. You must buy a printer, because that's where the rebates are, but that is still a remarkable price for the total package. That is one heck of an Xmas deal, especially if you don't have a printer.

I'm really tempted, even though I don't want the printer. :-) I'll need to think about this for a little while. I've been looking to buy a d7200 on sale somewhere, but Nikon is trying to get rid of d7k's and d7100's, so the d7200 isn't being marked down as much as I'd like.

As for whether or not this means bad news overall for the 7dII, I don't think it is at all. Instead, it looks to me like it's one of Canon's answers to the economy and downturn in overall camera sales. First of all, if you look at the rebate form, it's good for almost ANY Canon camera. That includes both DSLR's and several Powershots and is basically another $350 off of the sale of any camera and printer combo.

So, they're going to sell more cameras and printers, including 7dII's for Xmas, which is always a good thing for them, but it doesn't say anything good or bad about a pro DX or pro APS-C camera in the market.

Kerry
 
Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year. (The Canon store has not even taken off the "New" logo from the 7D II webpage, lol)

Looks like Nikon is right and the market for this type of camera is tiny. Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
The rumor mill has a new sensor technology in 1DX MKII. Allegedly also the 5DSR etc to be replaced so soon, logically maybe that new sensor tech filtering down already.

If so, likely it will also result in an upgraded 7DIII?
You're assuming there will be a 7DIII.
*IF's and BUT'S* but one explanation.

That would make sense for Canon to be clearing stock to make way for something that would really impact Canon new camera sales, without doubt.

It would be nice.

--
Wishing You Good Light.
7DIII is as likely as any camera from Nikon ten years from now.
--
In other words highly unlikely.
 
I took this deal 2 weeks ago. Also got an ex LensRental 100-400 Mk II for USD 1600 + usd 25 2 year warranty. A screaming deal for my reignited BIF addiction.

As I've posted before, Nikon left me several years ago but it took me a while for me to leave them. So sad. (D200, D300, D700, D800e, D5200 plus great lenses).

I figured if I was going to be a 2 system guy, I could at least use the Canon lens on my Sony A7RII, via Metabones, for non BIF work. The Nikon adaptor for Sony is not quite up to speed yet but may be worth waiting for for the rest of you guys.
 
FWIW, the printer is pretty awesome. I got it on a stand alone offer for $299 with a $250 rebate, so $50 net.. Anyways, just a thought, not that I think a D400 is coming, but perhaps Canon knows something we do not and they are trying to take advantage before the D400 is announced? At 1050 after rebate it is a steal.. If you wanna see something funny, search your local craigslist for the pro 100... :) These rebates have been going on for a month and there are a ton of them for sale..
--
My sober voyage into bird photography

 
Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year. (The Canon store has not even taken off the "New" logo from the 7D II webpage, lol)

Looks like Nikon is right and the market for this type of camera is tiny. Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
The rumor mill has a new sensor technology in 1DX MKII. Allegedly also the 5DSR etc to be replaced so soon, logically maybe that new sensor tech filtering down already.

If so, likely it will also result in an upgraded 7DIII?
You're assuming there will be a 7DIII.
*IF's and BUT'S* but one explanation.

That would make sense for Canon to be clearing stock to make way for something that would really impact Canon new camera sales, without doubt.

It would be nice.

--
Wishing You Good Light.
7DIII is as likely as any camera from Nikon ten years from now.
--
In other words highly unlikely.
I think otherwise for two reasons.

Firstly, with the advent of the smartphones etc, the obvious shift back to high end, rather than consumer, for DSLR's ILC's.

Back to the days of the 'big six'? Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax, Olympus, Fuji (or Contax if you prefer).

Maybe now, Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Pentax, Olympus

To distinguish a brand, features and high end tools are surely a must. Hence, the features of such as a 7DI, (not referring to FF here, but same applies) which Sony et al cannot match, are what will keep Canon, Nikon and Pentax above the rest.

Hence, it is not a choice really, it is a must.

Otherwise, how else will they distinguish themselves???

Secondly,

Competition. Pentax still has the wonderful little K3. Weathersealed etc. Arguments on whether the AF is as good as Nikon and Cnaon abound. But the point is, Ricoh wont stop working on it and it will only improve.

Are Canon and Nikon ready to cede a whole segment and related business (many use both APS-C and FF 35mm) to Ricoh?

While Ricoh may still be building a Pentax recovery from the days of Hoya etc, strategy today impact products tomorrow.

Reaction to Pentax products wont work, it will be too late.

Action to fend off competitive advantage must be strategic and preemptive.

Canon also has a wide range of tools, the widest range of lenses.

To protect their market, one additional camera body wont hurt nor sting them to produce.

If Nikon does not make a D400 whatever, when new sensor tech comes to Canon, such that their sensors are on level footing with Nikon/ Sony, it will have a huge impact on comparative sales.

Not only in APS-C, but for sure with the 7DIII when it comes, it will be unassailable with the system behind it.

Imagine a 7DIII with a Sony equivalent sensor and Canon system lenses? With a 5DIV also with updated sensor for the FF use?

'Unassailable' and for that reason, a no brainer for Canon to make.

-
Wishing You Good Light.
 
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Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year. (The Canon store has not even taken off the "New" logo from the 7D II webpage, lol)

Looks like Nikon is right and the market for this type of camera is tiny. Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
The rumor mill has a new sensor technology in 1DX MKII. Allegedly also the 5DSR etc to be replaced so soon, logically maybe that new sensor tech filtering down already.

If so, likely it will also result in an upgraded 7DIII?
You're assuming there will be a 7DIII.
*IF's and BUT'S* but one explanation.

That would make sense for Canon to be clearing stock to make way for something that would really impact Canon new camera sales, without doubt.

It would be nice.

--
Wishing You Good Light.
7DIII is as likely as any camera from Nikon ten years from now.
--
In other words highly unlikely.
I think otherwise for two reasons.

Firstly, with the advent of the smartphones etc, the obvious shift back to high end, rather than consumer, for DSLR's ILC's.

Back to the days of the 'big six'? Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax, Olympus, Fuji (or Contax if you prefer).

Maybe now, Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji, Pentax, Olympus

To distinguish a brand, features and high end tools are surely a must. Hence, the features of such as a 7DI, (not referring to FF here, but same applies) which Sony et al cannot match, are what will keep Canon, Nikon and Pentax above the rest.

Hence, it is not a choice really, it is a must.

Otherwise, how else will they distinguish themselves???

Secondly,

Competition. Pentax still has the wonderful little K3. Weathersealed etc. Arguments on whether the AF is as good as Nikon and Cnaon abound. But the point is, Ricoh wont stop working on it and it will only improve.

Are Canon and Nikon ready to cede a whole segment and related business (many use both APS-C and FF 35mm) to Ricoh?

While Ricoh may still be building a Pentax recovery from the days of Hoya etc, strategy today impact products tomorrow.

Reaction to Pentax products wont work, it will be too late.

Action to fend off competitive advantage must be strategic and preemptive.

Canon also has a wide range of tools, the widest range of lenses.

To protect their market, one additional camera body wont hurt nor sting them to produce.

If Nikon does not make a D400 whatever, when new sensor tech comes to Canon, such that their sensors are on level footing with Nikon/ Sony, it will have a huge impact on comparative sales.

Not only in APS-C, but for sure with the 7DIII when it comes, it will be unassailable with the system behind it.

Imagine a 7DIII with a Sony equivalent sensor and Canon system lenses? With a 5DIV also with updated sensor for the FF use?

'Unassailable' and for that reason, a no brainer for Canon to make.

-
Wishing You Good Light.
As soon as i saw the sensor spec for the 7dii i was puzzled as to why they did not wait for a sony sensor to become available before release.

i always suspected that it was a stop-gap model to tide people over until they start fitting sony sensors.

lets face facts, to me there is nothing that makes its image quality stand out when compared to the d7100/d7200.

plus the fact that every new camera release now seems to have slowly diminishing improvements over its predecessor.

as far as nikon goes i see full frame with a high mp 1.5 crop being the future wether the consumer wants it or not.
 
Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year. (The Canon store has not even taken off the "New" logo from the 7D II webpage, lol)

Looks like Nikon is right and the market for this type of camera is tiny. Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
The rumor mill has a new sensor technology in 1DX MKII. Allegedly also the 5DSR etc to be replaced so soon, logically maybe that new sensor tech filtering down already.

If so, likely it will also result in an upgraded 7DIII?
You're assuming there will be a 7DIII.
*IF's and BUT'S* but one explanation.

That would make sense for Canon to be clearing stock to make way for something that would really impact Canon new camera sales, without doubt.

It would be nice.
 
Printer manufactures don't make money on their lower end printers, at least. When you go out and buy the replacement ink cartridges, that's where they make their money. They're more expensive than gold for the amount of ink you get!
 
Adorama has 7D II for $1050 today. That getting close to 1/2 price in a year. (The Canon store has not even taken off the "New" logo from the 7D II webpage, lol)

Looks like Nikon is right and the market for this type of camera is tiny. Or is Canon trying to just gather market share pricing the ~same as the D7200?
...unfortunately.

IMO a pro DX would be a very niche solution at this point of the history. Most people would not pay something around USD 2k for a pro DX body and Nikon looks to know that. I would be very surprised if Nikon releases a DX Pro body at the next future. Unfortunately.

Kaput.

(consider D7200)

Regards,

--
O.Cristo - An Amateur Photographer
Opinions of men are almost as various as their faces - so many men so many minds. B. Franklin
 
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