Anything special about 400/2.8 bokeh that 500/4 don't have?


Ridgefield

The 400 2.8 E has some truly horrible bokeh under a fair number of conditions, while being the sharpest lens I've ever had on my D800e. The 500 wasn't as sharp, but I don't recall any particular bokeh issues.
It's very subjective, but it is also very background and lighting dependent. I can achieve rubbish bokeh even from the best of bokeh lenses.

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Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
http://i.pbase.com/o4/21/489821/1/53232844.SydneyPanoVertSmall.jpg
Well, you can get soft pics with the sharpest lenses too, but that doesn't mean the lenses aren't sharp--correct? Generally, quality of bokeh is judged by smooth transitions to out of focus areas. This transition is judged before, as well as after the focal plane. Being good in one, does not necessarily mean the lens is just as good in the other.

Sure, backlighting can have the effect of degrading bokeh, but the best bokeh glass will handle the same poor light conditions better than lesser bokeh glass.

Subjective--what the hell in life, besides mathematical theorems & other matters in the realm of science & math isn't subjective? Wine quality is subjective too, but we still detect and rate smoothness to surprising degrees.

Some people like the bokeh of the Russian Helios glass, but none would argue it produce smooth OOF transitions. jt

--
Who looks outside,
dreams; who looks
inside, awakens
Carl Jung (1875-1961)
Several people who have used the 500 and 400 have provided input. All I see in your comment is generalizations and really no real information. There are people who shoot with the lenses over 300mm so their expertise is valuable. I do agree a person has to know when the background is going to look ugly due to lighting, incorrect settings and other factors to come up with an excellent image. It takes time with long lenses and years of experience.

Larry
 

Ridgefield

The 400 2.8 E has some truly horrible bokeh under a fair number of conditions, while being the sharpest lens I've ever had on my D800e. The 500 wasn't as sharp, but I don't recall any particular bokeh issues.
It's very subjective, but it is also very background and lighting dependent. I can achieve rubbish bokeh even from the best of bokeh lenses.

--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
http://i.pbase.com/o4/21/489821/1/53232844.SydneyPanoVertSmall.jpg
Well, you can get soft pics with the sharpest lenses too, but that doesn't mean the lenses aren't sharp--correct? Generally, quality of bokeh is judged by smooth transitions to out of focus areas. This transition is judged before, as well as after the focal plane. Being good in one, does not necessarily mean the lens is just as good in the other.

Sure, backlighting can have the effect of degrading bokeh, but the best bokeh glass will handle the same poor light conditions better than lesser bokeh glass.

Subjective--what the hell in life, besides mathematical theorems & other matters in the realm of science & math isn't subjective? Wine quality is subjective too, but we still detect and rate smoothness to surprising degrees.

Some people like the bokeh of the Russian Helios glass, but none would argue it produce smooth OOF transitions. jt
I am not disagreeing, but it is still background and lighting dependant. Yes, some will handle it better than others, but that's not what I am getting at or what I said, is it?
--
Who looks outside,
dreams; who looks
inside, awakens
Carl Jung (1875-1961)


--
Lance B
 

Ridgefield

The 400 2.8 E has some truly horrible bokeh under a fair number of conditions, while being the sharpest lens I've ever had on my D800e. The 500 wasn't as sharp, but I don't recall any particular bokeh issues.
It's very subjective, but it is also very background and lighting dependent. I can achieve rubbish bokeh even from the best of bokeh lenses.

--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
http://i.pbase.com/o4/21/489821/1/53232844.SydneyPanoVertSmall.jpg
I agree. But given the same subject and location, would 400 produce better looking image? That's my dilemma.
The photo above was taken with the 400. I think the reeds are a bit busy, but it's probably more the background than the lens. I don't think the 500 would be better, but I would wait until the new 500 comes onto the marlet before making any pronouncements as to whether it's bokeh is better or not.


--
Lance B
 
Too many people think Bokeh=Shallow DOF.
Well I'm glad not to be among their number.
You can consult an online DOF chart to calculate DOF on any focal length, @ any given distance.

HOWEVER, to judge bokeh you need to look @ samples from the lenses in question. jt
How else?
Please see my response to Lance B. Looking @ samples is the only way I know to ID bokeh. jt
I'm well satisfied by looking the pics I've taken that the 400Vr at f 2.8 can have really bad, shot-spoiling bokeh slightly in front or in back of the subject. The lens is extremely sharp but not perfect. It is what it is and the only cure is to stop it down when the bad bokeh manifests itself. Any questions?
 
Too many people think Bokeh=Shallow DOF.
Well I'm glad not to be among their number.
You can consult an online DOF chart to calculate DOF on any focal length, @ any given distance.

HOWEVER, to judge bokeh you need to look @ samples from the lenses in question. jt
How else?
Please see my response to Lance B. Looking @ samples is the only way I know to ID bokeh. jt
I'm well satisfied by looking the pics I've taken that the 400Vr at f 2.8 can have really bad, shot-spoiling bokeh slightly in front or in back of the subject. The lens is extremely sharp but not perfect. It is what it is and the only cure is to stop it down when the bad bokeh manifests itself. Any questions?
Reilly, hows the weather up there? Its drier than a bone and hotter than &^%$ here in western Oregon. I'm giving up on birding for a while until the weather cools and it rains, if ever.

All the Nikon long prime lenses are excellent, just need experience in running them to come up with excellent images with decent background.

By the way I like your Heron, need more complex background with a few light spots in it :-D

Larry
 
Too many people think Bokeh=Shallow DOF.
Well I'm glad not to be among their number.
You can consult an online DOF chart to calculate DOF on any focal length, @ any given distance.

HOWEVER, to judge bokeh you need to look @ samples from the lenses in question. jt
How else?
Please see my response to Lance B. Looking @ samples is the only way I know to ID bokeh. jt
I'm well satisfied by looking the pics I've taken that the 400Vr at f 2.8 can have really bad, shot-spoiling bokeh slightly in front or in back of the subject. The lens is extremely sharp but not perfect. It is what it is and the only cure is to stop it down when the bad bokeh manifests itself. Any questions?
Reilly, hows the weather up there? Its drier than a bone and hotter than &^%$ here in western Oregon. I'm giving up on birding for a while until the weather cools and it rains, if ever.

All the Nikon long prime lenses are excellent, just need experience in running them to come up with excellent images with decent background.

By the way I like your Heron, need more complex background with a few light spots in it :-D

Larry
Hi Larry,

I'm only thirty miles from downtown Portland on the Washington side, high up in the Cascade foothills. And yes it is dry!

I should probably sit this one out, because I've used all the big primes and with the advent of the 300PF plus 1.4 with its stellar image quality when clicked onto either my D800e or D7200, I no longer have any interest in lugging around the big guns. The 300PF rig is plenty sharp enough even for a fur and feather detail addict such as myself. Did I mention it's light as a feather? If I can't get close enough to get a decent shot with 420mm plus DX framing, the heck with it!



Rufous

Rufous

The 300PF bokeh is superb except specular highlights when backlit. That I can live with :^)
 
I agree. Also being a feather detail, skin texture and eye glint guy, that 300 pf with converter seems to be pretty good.
 

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