Advice on 2015 15"MBP w Retina Display for PS/LR CC (Win 7 User)

My desktop PC has gotten to the point where I am looking to replace it. I currently run Windows 7 using some of the Adobe Creative Suite software (CS 5.5 and CS 6 -- including Illustrator, Premiere, After Effects, In Design, etc. -- and of course Photoshop). I also have Lightroom on my machine and a number of windows based 3D applications: 3D Max, Maya and Z-Brush. I also subscribe to Adobe CC for the Photoshop/Lightroom combo. All of the software is for Windows.

For some time now I have been looking at purchasing a good laptop that could handle Photoshop and LR because I sometimes generate some sizable images. I have used Macs before and I don't necessarily have an allegiance to PCs over Macs or visa versa. I like the idea of the portability of using a large enough laptop (that I could tie into my monitors when needed)--but importantly be enough of a work horse to handle my performance demands.

I looked at a lot of the various windows-based PCs, and quite frankly, so many of them seem so 'gimmicky' these days--touch screens, fold into tablets, etc. Just not as much meat as I get in the MBP specs. Of course, this comes from looking at what's offered in the stores these days--not much looking online. I feel that if I go with another desktop PC I'd stick with windows so I could run all my 3D apps and other window software.

The CC subscription would let me install PS/LR for Apple on the MBP, so that wouldn't be an issue. I do hate not being able to run some of my other apps on the Mac though, and this is also a concern. My plug-ins (On One/Nik/Topaz) were also purchased for windows, so I'd have to see if I could download the Mac version.

Anyway--I guess I'm looking for some advice (reassurance?) that the 15" MBP (with the AMD Radeon R9 M370X) can easily handle PS. I have read that there is software that can run on a Mac that will allow you to use Windows-based software, but I don't know how good (or bad) this is, and how clunky some apps would run under it--especially 3D stuff.

So....opinions, suggestions welcome. Some of the stores around here are having a sale on the MBP which ends Saturday--so I'd like to make up my mind by then--hopefully with some intelligent advice. Sorry for all the questions...but these 'puters ain't cheap!

--David

DJThomas said:

I have read that there is software that can run on a Mac that will allow you to use Windows-based software, but I don't know how good (or bad) this is, and how clunky some apps would run under it--especially 3D stuff.

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There are a couple of ways to install Windows on an Intel-based Mac. One is to use Boot Camp (a Mac OS X) utility to partition the disk, and to install Windows there. Another is to use software like Parallels Desktop or VMware Fusion to create a virtual machine into which you can install Windows.

With the Boot Camp approach, you can only start up one OS at a time, but when you start the MBP in Windows, it is essentially a Wintel machine. The virtual machine approach lets you run Mac and Windows applications at the same time, which is convenient, but it may use more RAM, and it may sacrifice some graphics performance (especially for 3D games).

DJThomas said:

So....opinions, suggestions welcome.

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I believe that all of the 15" rMBPs now come standard with 16 GB of RAM. The 13" rMBPs don't – if you decide to switch to a 13" machine at the last minute (and I'm not saying that you should), you may want to get one with 16 GB of RAM, even if that means custom-ordering it.

Those MBP's are quite powerful, and used by lots of Ps users. Generally speaking, it's one of the more powerful laptops, and there wouldn't be tons of difference between it and a similarly-processor-equipped PC, at least in pure processing speed for many Lr and Ps chores. You can search around online and find lots of tests, many of which include 3d rendering, etc. But I'd expect that not a lot of laptops can beat it, but of course many desktops could.

But for Ps/Lr it would be fine. I think barefeats.com has some good real-world benchmarks.

It's hard to go wrong with the MacBook Pro, for a couple of brief moments in its history it was even named the "fastest Windows laptop" by one PC magazine or another! Photoshop and Lightroom will not be a problem. Just make sure you get enough internal storage for your future needs. MacBook Pros no longer have a hard drive option, it's all solid state now, so storage upgrades are expensive but the solid state tech is extremely fast, about 2-3 times faster than consumer SSDs. And you must expand storage at purchase time because post-purchase storage and RAM upgrades are not available.

DJThomas said:

I also have Lightroom on my machine and a number of windows based 3D applications: 3D Max, Maya and Z-Brush. I also subscribe to Adobe CC for the Photoshop/Lightroom combo. All of the software is for Windows. ...Anyway--I guess I'm looking for some advice (reassurance?) that the 15" MBP (with the AMD Radeon R9 M370X) can easily handle PS. I have read that there is software that can run on a Mac that will allow you to use Windows-based software, but I don't know how good (or bad) this is, and how clunky some apps would run under it--especially 3D stuff.

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There are two ways to run Windows software on a Mac.

One is through virtualization. If you have done this on a PC to run multiple/different versions of Window simultaneously it works the same, you have an application that can run a virtual machine running Windows. I occasionally run Windows this way because it does not require a reboot into full Windows. I just boot Windows in the VM while I keep running OS X and its applications and they all coexist and share data.

The other way is through Boot Camp, which means shutting down OS X and rebooting into Windows only. I find this inconvenient because OS X Mac applications can't run while this happens. But if any of your applications need best possible performance or compatibility, rebooting into Windows is better for that.

I have a 2013 R MBP 15", i7, 16gb RAM, 500gb SSD and 2gb Nvidia GPU. This was my first Mac (love it), and have been using it for 2years. I have LR 5 and PS CS6 along with CS6 premiere, after effects, etc. It handles LR and PS perfectly well, and handles Premiere and after effects very well, unless you're doing 3D graphics.

Not sure about the new AMD GPUs they're using, but assume would be better than my 2 year old GPU. I would max everything out since the MBP are not upgradeable. 16gb RAM and best GPU they have. You might be able to obtain a MAC license for CS6 from Adobe, they used to allow a one time free conversion if you were on the latest version, but not sure that still applies with CC.

Any current laptop with a better than Atom CPU can run Adobe software. All laptops, even my magic by Apple MBP, are constrained by heat and slower peripherals and do not compare to desktop equivalents. The Apple type laptop design makes them attractive also limits heat dissipation: so think what must be done to potential performance so as not to generate too much heat?

I am not an Apple hater. I really like my MBP. Increasingly I find the retina display more useful for text based general computing tasks than Photoshop. I tried running PS via bootcamp but scaling issues were awful. They persist to some degree in Yosemite but not as severely. The retina display uncalibrated has quite accurate color but if color managed printing is critical to you an external graphics panel is in your future as well. Since you will also require outboard storage that is a factor slowing overall throughput compared to a desktop.

If plug-ins are important to you losing them may be significant. I rely on NIK plug-ins but fortunately they are usable in Windows and OSX.

Only the naive would consider running PS via Parallels or other emulator.

8gbs is more desirable than 4gb but RAM is not the only, probably not even the major, restraining factor in PS performance on a laptop. With 16gb most of that RAM will never be used but who reads CPU and RAM meters that might actually show what is going on rather than making assumptions? Regardless of platform PS runs faster on a faster clock speed CPU: most studies show less than expected benefit from the increased onboard cache of an i7 compared to an i5 at equal clock speeds and no benefit to hyper-threading but I would get the i7 anyway as it may facilitate other tasks.

So if you want a MBP get one but do not be deluded that it is equivalent to a fast Windows desktop or that the retina display is without issues. There are now high resolution Windows laptops that cost about as much as the Apple, have better parts inside (particularly GPU), but may not have the "Apple look" that many seek. If you can wait it is not clear if the newer Skylake processors with Intel IRIS graphics will perform equivalently to the underwhelming AMD notebook part in high end MBPs.

bmoag said:

With 16gb most of that RAM will never be used but who reads CPU and RAM meters that might actually show what is going on rather than making assumptions?

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I do. My meters tell me that while applications may not directly be using all that RAM, it is getting used. In Activity Monitor for example, adding up the RAM used by applications plus free memory does not add up to the total RAM. The missing amount turns out to be in the Cache. That means it is being used for speed. That is a Good Thing.

Also, whether you do use 16GB or more depends on what you are doing. Add up 16-bit layers and masks on a 24 megapixel file, or stitch some panos or HDRs, and watch the RAM usage climb. Especially if other applications need to be running too.

No serious photographer should be buying a 4GB Mac for editing (for image ingestion during travel, maybe.) 8GB is a good starting point. But since MacBook Pros cannot be upgraded, 16GB is really the right amount to get. It was a very good move for photographers when Apple made 16GB RAM mandatory across the 15" line.

bmoag said:

The Apple type laptop design makes them attractive also limits heat dissipation: so think what must be done to potential performance so as not to generate too much heat?

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I can run my 2012, top spec retina without any thermal throttling kicking in. Yes it runs warm when busy for long extended periods but I can always keep it from throttling.

I've had traditional PC laptop 'desktop replacements' and I can assure you they make just as good computers as MacBooks but are terrible when it comes to being a laptop!

bmoag said:

With 16gb most of that RAM will never be used but who reads CPU and RAM meters that might actually show what is going on rather than making assumptions?

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You're the one now making assumptions too. Some tasks, for some people will either regularly or occasionally benefit from >8GB.

bmoag said:

Since you will also require outboard storage that is a factor slowing overall throughput compared to a desktop

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Why? A fast external storage device is as fast as an equivalently fast internal storage device. Even USB 3.0 is fast enough to keep up with a spinning HDD and thunderbolt is fast enough for pretty much any use case.

Yes, the option of internal storage has many benefits but that isn't your argument, you claim that External = Slower and that isn't the case.

bmoag said:

So if you want a MBP get one but do not be deluded that it is equivalent to a fast Windows desktop or that the retina display is without issues.

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Erm don't be deluded into thinking it's equivalent to a faster machine? Surely the same statement could be 'Do not be deluded that it is equivalent to a fast Apple desktop'. When judging machines on CPU performance then faster CPU performance is faster. Clearly if you want the fastest CPU and biggest GPU you can buy then you buy a computer based on desktop parts with desktop class airflow and cooling or the Mac 'equivalent' - the gorgeous but pricy/specialist Mac Pro.

As to the retina scaling issues you mentioned. I've had my retina Mac for three years and haven't seen ANY scaling issues in a couple of years at least.

What software are you using that hasn't been updated to handle HiDPI displays in all this time?

bmoag said:

There are now high resolution Windows laptops that cost about as much as the Apple, have better parts inside (particularly GPU), but may not have the "Apple look" that many seek.

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They also (generally) don't have as good battery life, keyboard, trackpad or software support for their high DPI displays.

You say you're not biased to one platform or another and yet you're still using the 'Apple look' as a key benefit to getting a Mac laptop.

Tom_N said:

DJThomas said:

So....opinions, suggestions welcome.

Click to expand...

I believe that all of the 15" rMBPs now come standard with 16 GB of RAM. The 13" rMBPs don't – if you decide to switch to a 13" machine at the last minute (and I'm not saying that you should), you may want to get one with 16 GB of RAM, even if that means custom-ordering it.

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13" MBP lacks the GPU option of the 15". So if you find the 15" sufficiently portable, there *may* be a substantial performance bonus if you purchase that option.

ArtAlt said:

Tom_N said:

DJThomas said:

So....opinions, suggestions welcome.

Click to expand...

I believe that all of the 15" rMBPs now come standard with 16 GB of RAM. The 13" rMBPs don't – if you decide to switch to a 13" machine at the last minute (and I'm not saying that you should), you may want to get one with 16 GB of RAM, even if that means custom-ordering it.

Click to expand...

13" MBP lacks the GPU option of the 15". So if you find the 15" sufficiently portable, there *may* be a substantial performance bonus if you purchase that option.

Click to expand...

If I remember correctly, the versions of the current 15" rMBP that include a discrete GPU can drive a 5K monitor like the 27-inch Dell 5K monitor. Other rMBPs can't do that.

ArtAlt said:

Tom_N said:

DJThomas said:

So....opinions, suggestions welcome.

Click to expand...

I believe that all of the 15" rMBPs now come standard with 16 GB of RAM. The 13" rMBPs don't – if you decide to switch to a 13" machine at the last minute (and I'm not saying that you should), you may want to get one with 16 GB of RAM, even if that means custom-ordering it.

Click to expand...

13" MBP lacks the GPU option of the 15". So if you find the 15" sufficiently portable, there *may* be a substantial performance bonus if you purchase that option.

Click to expand...

Definitely research your software before you make this leap, since the only MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU is the most expensive one, yet a lot of software qualifies for acceleration with the non-discrete graphics in the other 15" and 13" models. My MBPs have always had discrete graphics so far, but now that you can only get that starting at $2499 I am going to see if it isn't really needed next time.

Tom_N is right about maxing out the RAM of a 13" because that will allow more RAM to be allocated as graphics RAM.

graybalanced said:

Definitely research your software before you make this leap, since the only MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU is the most expensive one, yet a lot of software qualifies for acceleration with the non-discrete graphics in the other 15" and 13" models. My MBPs have always had discrete graphics so far, but now that you can only get that starting at $2499 I am going to see if it isn't really needed next time.

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There are discounts for education, military + veterans, etc where you can get $100 off the 15" rMBP base model, and $200 off the higher end one, plus $100 off Apple Care. That makes the higher end unit a better deal for some. It always pays to check to see if there's a discount you might qualify for.

rb0321 said:

graybalanced said:

Definitely research your software before you make this leap, since the only MacBook Pro with a discrete GPU is the most expensive one, yet a lot of software qualifies for acceleration with the non-discrete graphics in the other 15" and 13" models. My MBPs have always had discrete graphics so far, but now that you can only get that starting at $2499 I am going to see if it isn't really needed next time.

Click to expand...

There are discounts for education, military + veterans, etc where you can get $100 off the 15" rMBP base model, and $200 off the higher end one, plus $100 off Apple Care. That makes the higher end unit a better deal for some. It always pays to check to see if there's a discount you might qualify for.

Click to expand...

You can get discounts on AppleCare by purchasing it from a reputable dealer like B&H Photo Video or Adorama. I was surprised to find that these places were able to discount it, but they do.

The only disadvantage of buying AppleCare separately is that you must register it yourself. That's not hard; it just takes a few minutes.

Well, after quite a bit of consideration and reading everyone's suggestions, I ended up going with the 15" Macbook Pro with Retina Display. Right now I am using it hooked up to my 27" Viewsonic monitor -- but at some point I'd like to find a better / higher resolution monitor. I was reading about Apple's 27" monitor and that it has not been updated since 2011. Does anyone here have a good (reasonably priced!) monitor that they use with a MBP? One that can rotate would be nice as I shoot lots of stuff in portrait mode. I have heard that there is sometimes a loss of resolution when changing the monitor's orientation--is this typical? Is it a significant reduction?

I also purchased the program 'Parallels' in anticipation of loading some windows applications. Not sure if even be able to get Win 10 (for free) now as my PC died after I accepted the Microsoft invitation to upgrade my machine. I still have the original Win 7 disk, but I don't know if it would work to install that under Parallels and see if I get the notification for the upgrade again. I have some software I use under Windows and would like to get access to that again.

Thanks for all the feedback -- I appreciate the responses, and I learned quite a bit (first Mac).

David

You should be fine. What I don't know is how effective the LR 6 is in using the GPU in the newest MBPs. Said GPU is Intel in the low-priced one, AMD Radeon in the maxxed-out MBP, and there have been some issues with LR 6 not playing well with AMD GPUs. I would like to know if anyone here has the mid-2015 MBP with AMD GPU and can comment on the performance of LR 6.