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Does Nikon use face recognition with AF?

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Neil-H

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I have heard this a few times and am no closer to seeing proof one way or another. At the moment I am an owner of two systems, with a D7k and a 70D. I actually really like both systems for many reasons, some overlapping and some very different. The problem is I would prefer to put most/all future investment into a single mount since I can't really use my lenses/ect on both cameras.

As for the two I own, I love my 70D's grip feel, it's more comfortable than the D7k. I also much prefer the LV of the 70D, and I like having an articulating touch screen. On the other hand, the D7k has a much better auto ISO design, which is very useful in my shooting, and it has a few more AF options when adjusting the focus points. I haven't been able to discern much difference in AF tracking ability, although I admit I haven't really "tested" them in a vs shootout.

Im more or less looking to identify what differences tend to be innately linked to the brand so I can better determine which I will focus on, so to speak ;-) . One thing that stood out as a benefit is the face detection that I heard about. They both have it in LV of course, but I shoot VF 98% of the time. The word is that Nikon uses the RGB or metering sensor I guess, similar to how it uses color to track in 3D mode.

Does anybody have any definitive info on this? Is this only on certain bodies, or is this completely untrue?
 
Neil-H said:
I have heard this a few times and am no closer to seeing proof one way or another.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's used in AF-Area mode "auto" via input from the RGB meter and in Liveview "Face-Priority" AF. Note: Discussed on page 51 in the D7K manual and hints at it's use in PDAF on page 95. Face detection is a bit better/advanced in latter models.
 
Mako2011 said:
Neil-H said:
I have heard this a few times and am no closer to seeing proof one way or another.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's used in AF-Area mode "auto" via input from the RGB meter and in Liveview "Face-Priority" AF. Note: Discussed on page 51 in the D7K manual and hints at it's use in PDAF on page 95. Face detection is a bit better/advanced in latter models.
Click to expand...
 
Mako2011 said:
Neil-H said:
I have heard this a few times and am no closer to seeing proof one way or another.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's used in AF-Area mode "auto" via input from the RGB meter and in Liveview "Face-Priority" AF. Note: Discussed on page 51 in the D7K manual and hints at it's use in PDAF on page 95. Face detection is a bit better/advanced in latter models.

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
Click to expand...
I dont have time to deep dive into this, but I am fairly certain that only the new top Nikon cameras use face detection in viewfinder autofocusing. D750 being the most affordable of those.

edit: fixed: liveview->viewfinder
 
Last edited:
Solution
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Mako2011 said:
Neil-H said:
I have heard this a few times and am no closer to seeing proof one way or another.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's used in AF-Area mode "auto" via input from the RGB meter and in Liveview "Face-Priority" AF. Note: Discussed on page 51 in the D7K manual and hints at it's use in PDAF on page 95. Face detection is a bit better/advanced in latter models.

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
Click to expand...
I dont have time to deep dive into this, but I am fairly certain that only the new top Nikon cameras use face detection in viewfinder autofocusing. D750 being the most affordable of those.

edit: fixed: liveview->viewfinder
Click to expand...
Cameras as old as the D7000 also use it with AF-Area mode "auto" when focusing through the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
Correct and thank you for the answer. While doing more research last night I found a website with people discussing it, and several cited PG 95 of the D7k handbook, which reads "If a type G or D lens is used, the camera can distinguish human subjects from the background for improved subject detection". This is of course different than what is discussed in the LV section in earlier parts, such as PG 54, and is indeed a form of "face detection" through the OVF.

Quite a feat by Nikon and something ML users would be surprised to hear. I will have to do some thinking now and determine which overall feature set I prefer of my possible paths.
 
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing. D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.

D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.

see example here:


D750 and D4 have "Advanced Scene Recognition System"

"The system can also recognize human faces when focusing through the camera’s optical viewfinder."
 
Last edited:
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing. D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.

D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
Well I won't argue about it, im just showing what the book says. It also says, which I didn't quote, that it's only for the "auto" array, meaning the 39pt auto setting. This is in line with EVERYTHING I have read from other users who claim it can do it as well. I don't know why you would doubt it unless you have evidence to suggest it doesn't, such as Nikon specifically stating it can't.

I don't think it can track eyes, but it does say "human subjects", and to me this implies faces. The main reason this is of interest to me is I shoot a lot of candid portrait style, my kids and such, and I seem to get a little better keeper rate with my Nikon than with my 70D. Both produce nice shots of course but im picky about focus being just right and the D7k seems to nail it more often, especially with the DOF being thin.

So im happy to hear this and it's a big advantage for Nikon cameras, apparently as old as the D7k. If you don't believe no harm done to me friend, but the book is clear enough for me.
 
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing.
Click to expand...
That's just not the case. The D7000 can indeed indentify faces when focusing though the viewfinder in AF-Area mode "Auto". It uses distance inputs from the lens, color info from the RGB sensor, and built in algorithms/programing to focus on "faces" in a scene. That is Face Detection and I have confirmed the ability in my D7000
Displacer said:
D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.
Click to expand...
The D750 has improved on the feature. That does not mean the D7000 doesn't employ face detection also.
Displacer said:
D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
It can indeed identify human faces in a scene with pretty solid accuracy. At least my particular sample can...as the maual indicates it should
 
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing.
Click to expand...
That's just not the case. The D7000 can indeed indentify faces when focusing though the viewfinder in AF-Area mode "Auto". It uses distance inputs from the lens, color info from the RGB sensor, and built in algorithms/programing to focus on "faces" in a scene. That is Face Detection and I have confirmed the ability in my D7000
Mako2011 said:
D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.
Click to expand...
The D750 has improved on the feature. That does not mean the D7000 doesn't employ face detection also.
Mako2011 said:
D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
It can indeed identify human faces in a scene with pretty solid accuracy. At least my particular sample can...as the maual indicates it should

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
Click to expand...
How do you know it can recognize the faces? the fact that AFTER the picture is taken it highlights the faces is not a solid proof.

anyway, I have only the nikon webpage about "Advanced Scene Recognition System" which I edited to my previous posting to back my words.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55681501

In my opinion they are quite clearly indicating that only the 91,000-pixel RGB sensor is capable of face recognition.
 
Last edited:
Displacer said:
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing.
Click to expand...
That's just not the case. The D7000 can indeed indentify faces when focusing though the viewfinder in AF-Area mode "Auto". It uses distance inputs from the lens, color info from the RGB sensor, and built in algorithms/programing to focus on "faces" in a scene. That is Face Detection and I have confirmed the ability in my D7000
Displacer said:
D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.
Click to expand...
The D750 has improved on the feature. That does not mean the D7000 doesn't employ face detection also.
Displacer said:
D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
It can indeed identify human faces in a scene with pretty solid accuracy. At least my particular sample can...as the maual indicates it should
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Neil-H said:
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing. D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.

D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
Well I won't argue about it, im just showing what the book says. It also says, which I didn't quote, that it's only for the "auto" array, meaning the 39pt auto setting. This is in line with EVERYTHING I have read from other users who claim it can do it as well. I don't know why you would doubt it unless you have evidence to suggest it doesn't, such as Nikon specifically stating it can't.

I don't think it can track eyes, but it does say "human subjects", and to me this implies faces. The main reason this is of interest to me is I shoot a lot of candid portrait style, my kids and such, and I seem to get a little better keeper rate with my Nikon than with my 70D. Both produce nice shots of course but im picky about focus being just right and the D7k seems to nail it more often, especially with the DOF being thin.

So im happy to hear this and it's a big advantage for Nikon cameras, apparently as old as the D7k. If you don't believe no harm done to me friend, but the book is clear enough for me.
Click to expand...
I think D7000 and other Nikons with less than 91k pixels on their RGB sensor are smart enough to pick a good focus point often, but I dont think they can actually recognize the faces.

So while D7000 is probably good at picking up the scene I believe D750 / D8x0 / D4 would be even better, especially when it comes to face recognition/portraits :) But you still have to pay the FF-extra $$ for the camera and lenses to get that. I do not know about Canon viewfinder face detection.
 
Displacer said:
Neil-H said:
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing. D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.

D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
Well I won't argue about it, im just showing what the book says. It also says, which I didn't quote, that it's only for the "auto" array, meaning the 39pt auto setting. This is in line with EVERYTHING I have read from other users who claim it can do it as well. I don't know why you would doubt it unless you have evidence to suggest it doesn't, such as Nikon specifically stating it can't.

I don't think it can track eyes, but it does say "human subjects", and to me this implies faces. The main reason this is of interest to me is I shoot a lot of candid portrait style, my kids and such, and I seem to get a little better keeper rate with my Nikon than with my 70D. Both produce nice shots of course but im picky about focus being just right and the D7k seems to nail it more often, especially with the DOF being thin.

So im happy to hear this and it's a big advantage for Nikon cameras, apparently as old as the D7k. If you don't believe no harm done to me friend, but the book is clear enough for me.
Click to expand...
I think D7000 and other Nikons with less than 91k pixels on their RGB sensor are smart enough to pick a good focus point often, but I dont think they can actually recognize the faces.
Click to expand...
Mine does. You can see it actually select and/or prioritize focus for faces over other subjects when using AF Area mode Auto by watching the focus boxes in the viewfinder as a group of folks move around in a scene.
Displacer said:
So while D7000 is probably good at picking up the scene I believe D750 / D8x0 / D4 would be even better,
Click to expand...
That's true, the feature has improved.
Displacer said:
...especially when it comes to face recognition/portraits :)
Click to expand...
Yes, much better than before but still doing the same thing of integrating RGB sensor data with lens data and programed scene recognition.
Displacer said:
But you still have to pay the FF-extra $$ for the camera and lenses to get that.
Click to expand...
Yes, you have to pay extra to get the improved features that come with the latest offering. Can the D7000 detect faces in PDAF modes... yes in AF Area mode "auto". Do the newer bodies detect faces also... yes and in more AF modes with improved capability
Displacer said:
I do not know about Canon viewfinder face detection.
Click to expand...
Some Canon bodies have a similar capability, I don't know how well it works.

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
 
Last edited:
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing.
Click to expand...
That's just not the case. The D7000 can indeed indentify faces when focusing though the viewfinder in AF-Area mode "Auto". It uses distance inputs from the lens, color info from the RGB sensor, and built in algorithms/programing to focus on "faces" in a scene. That is Face Detection and I have confirmed the ability in my D7000
Mako2011 said:
D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.
Click to expand...
The D750 has improved on the feature. That does not mean the D7000 doesn't employ face detection also.
Mako2011 said:
D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
It can indeed identify human faces in a scene with pretty solid accuracy. At least my particular sample can...as the maual indicates it should

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
Click to expand...
How do you know it can recognize the faces?
Click to expand...
Because you can set the camera up on a tripod in AF-Area mode "auto" (AF-C) and watch it actually track faces with the AF array's (focus boxes move over the faces) as people move around the scene. It's pretty obvious that it actually knows what a "face" is and can detect them. It will actually prioritize for "faces" in the scene vs other more contrasty targets. If you had a sample of the camera in your hand, as I do< you could confirm the capability as well.
Mako2011 said:
the fact that AFTER the picture is taken it highlights the faces is not a solid proof.
Click to expand...
Agreed
Mako2011 said:
anyway, I have only the nikon webpage about "Advanced Scene Recognition System" which I edited to my previous posting to back my words.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55681501
Click to expand...
Yes...face recognition capability has improved from it's implementation in the D7000
Mako2011 said:
In my opinion they are quite clearly indicating that only the 91,000-pixel RGB sensor is capable of face recognition.
Click to expand...
No, they are not as nowhere in that article does it say that earlier cameras were incapable of face detection. But it is saying, the new system is good at it and the capability has expanded/improved.

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
Click to expand...
Yea I dont have D7000 in hand. its great if your D7000 can recognize faces with viewfinder focusing. My D7200 unfortunately cannot do that even with AF-C "auto". Any complex situation where the face isnt the closest thing to the camera and/or on the center of the scene and its very random if face is selected or not..
 
Displacer said:
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing.
Click to expand...
That's just not the case. The D7000 can indeed indentify faces when focusing though the viewfinder in AF-Area mode "Auto". It uses distance inputs from the lens, color info from the RGB sensor, and built in algorithms/programing to focus on "faces" in a scene. That is Face Detection and I have confirmed the ability in my D7000
Displacer said:
D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.
Click to expand...
The D750 has improved on the feature. That does not mean the D7000 doesn't employ face detection also.
Displacer said:
D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
It can indeed identify human faces in a scene with pretty solid accuracy. At least my particular sample can...as the maual indicates it should
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Mako2011 said:
Displacer said:
Say what you want, but I think you are wrong. D7000 cannot distinguish human faces using viewfinder focusing.
Click to expand...
That's just not the case. The D7000 can indeed indentify faces when focusing though the viewfinder in AF-Area mode "Auto". It uses distance inputs from the lens, color info from the RGB sensor, and built in algorithms/programing to focus on "faces" in a scene. That is Face Detection and I have confirmed the ability in my D7000
Mako2011 said:
D750 can and that is a good selling point for that camera.
Click to expand...
The D750 has improved on the feature. That does not mean the D7000 doesn't employ face detection also.
Mako2011 said:
D7000 can possibly see the colors of the skin or whatever, but it cannot identify human face and focus accurately on the eye.
Click to expand...
It can indeed identify human faces in a scene with pretty solid accuracy. At least my particular sample can...as the maual indicates it should
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I can't imagine trusting any camera to correctly choose my focus point. Single point, aim, shoot, next. What if multiple faces?

If my camera has it I make sure its set to "Off"

Steve
 
Mako2011 said:
Cameras as old as the D7000 also use it with AF-Area mode "auto" when focusing through the viewfinder

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
Click to expand...
Actually, only Nikon cameras with a 91,000-pixel RGB metering sensor can detect faces in the scene to focus on them during OVF shooting.

Their cameras with 2,016-pixel RGB sensors can't detect faces, simply b/c the resolution of that secondary sensor is too low. These cameras will, however, put boxes around faces in image review mode or playback b/c at that point it's easy to identify faces using image analysis. In other words, no Nikon APS-C camera will detect faces in OVF shooting.

Can't blame anyone for getting confused over this though - Nikon's websites don't really make this clear!

We should probably do an article clarifying this, as it gets confusing with all the products out there. A good rule of thumb is to just remember that you need a relatively high resolution sensor 'seeing' the scene all the time to be able to focus on faces. This is why mirrorless cameras do this almost effortlessly, as they have all the data off the main imaging sensor to do scene/subject analysis in real time. Canon introduced face detection in OVF shooting with the 1D X, and also offer it now in the 7D2 and 5DS/R, and Nikon's have been offering it in their full-frame cameras since the D4 (when they introduced the 91,000-pixel RGB sensor). These cameras will continue to track the faces as well as the subject or camera moves, btw, in AF-C. Nikon DSLRs will do this better than Canon DSLRs, save for the 1D X which almost keeps up. 7D2 tracks faces very well in dual-pixel AF mode (Live View), b/c at this point its using its image sensor. Certain mirrorless will beat both Nikons and Canons at this, but results vary from model to model. This shouldn't be surprising, of course, since the high resolution image sensor theoretically allows for very accurate tracking.

Cheers, Rishi
 
Last edited:
Rishi Sanyal said:
Mako2011 said:
Cameras as old as the D7000 also use it with AF-Area mode "auto" when focusing through the viewfinder

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)
Click to expand...
Actually, only Nikon cameras with a 91,000-pixel RGB metering sensor can detect faces in the scene to focus on them during OVF shooting.

Their cameras with 2,016-pixel RGB sensors can't detect faces, simply b/c the resolution of that secondary sensor is too low. These cameras will, however, put boxes around faces in image review mode or playback b/c at that point it's easy to identify faces using image analysis. In other words, no Nikon APS-C camera will detect faces in OVF shooting.

Can't blame anyone for getting confused over this though - Nikon's websites don't really make this clear!
Click to expand...
Im confused then, my D7k's manual says "If a type G or D lens is used, the camera can distinguish human subjects from the background for improved subject detection". This is from the first paragraph on PG 95. Is this RGB somehow able to detect a human body and not the face? It is confusing but I would like to know for sure what is what.

Rishi Sanyal said:
We should probably do an article clarifying this, as it gets confusing with all the products out there. A good rule of thumb is to just remember that you need a relatively high resolution sensor 'seeing' the scene all the time to be able to focus on faces. This is why mirrorless cameras do this almost effortlessly, as they have all the data off the main imaging sensor to do scene/subject analysis in real time. Canon introduced face detection in OVF shooting with the 1D X, and also offer it now in the 7D2 and 5DS/R, and Nikon's have been offering it in their full-frame cameras since the D4 (when they introduced the 91,000-pixel RGB sensor). These cameras will continue to track the faces as well as the subject or camera moves, btw, in AF-C. Nikon DSLRs will do this better than Canon DSLRs, save for the 1D X which almost keeps up. 7D2 tracks faces very well in dual-pixel AF mode (Live View), b/c at this point its using its image sensor. Certain mirrorless will beat both Nikons and Canons at this, but results vary from model to model. This shouldn't be surprising, of course, since the high resolution image sensor theoretically allows for very accurate tracking.

Cheers, Rishi
Click to expand...
 
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