Any Advantage to Full Frame?

Started Aug 26, 2014 | Questions thread
KSV Veteran Member • Posts: 3,351
Re: I would argue

MisterHairy wrote:

KSV wrote:

MisterHairy wrote:

KSV wrote:

MisterHairy wrote:

romfordbluenose wrote:

5th street wrote:

Matsu wrote:

A larger recording surface allows for larger reproduction and more overall dynamic range.

This is something I've been puzzling over and I don't understand. If each sensor has 24 MP then it seems to me that (unlike film where a larger film has more sensitive area to be exposed to light) if the larger sensor (D610) has the same number of pixels as the smaller sensor (D5300 or D7100), the resolution should be the same. For example if you took identical photos with the two size sensors, the ability to crop and enlarge a part of the photo would be equal. The large sensor camera and the small sensor camera (with the same total pixel count) could be printed with roughly equal success on large paper. Of course, in the case of the D810, the greater pixels would lead to better enlargements. I'm using common sense with this and might be overlooking something.

This comment applies to your term "larger reproduction".

I don't understand enough about dynamic range vs pixel count to comment. I would appreciate further explanation. Thanks.

The difference is the size of the pixels which is important. Larger pixels can take more light, improve dynamic range, produce less noise and improve IQ and detail.

The D610 and D810 both have better noise characteristics than the D700 so clearly, "pixel" size is not the controlling factor.

You may respond that the D700 is older technology, and while that is a valid comment, when comparing contemporary technology, the larger sensor always produces the better print, and the resolution of the sensor becomes immaterial after a point.

Of course, to prove this to yourself, you would have to process and print the images to see.

Up until 6400 D700 and Df returning pretty much the same results. So "old" technologies not that bad after all. High ISO improvements in Df IMHO because of noise reduction on sensor. Both D610 and D810 shows worse results than Df regarding high ISO and frankly D610 looks better to me than D810. Df sensor (D4 technology) is older then D610. So size of pixel is paramount -bigger is indeed better - and you cannot fool laws of physics.

I continuously print A3+ and I do know from practice that 12MP are plenty even with moderate crop. So I do believe that we saturated with resolution and I indeed prefer better pixels rather then more of them. YMMV and can do so on big margin.

I have a D810 and a Df and if I shoot an image on each at ISO6400, correctly exposed, and print them both at the same size, the Df image does not look any better. That is with a critical eye as well. This is precisely what I have been doing this past weekend.

I bought the Df precisely because it is very clean but when printing, even at 16x10, that advantage disappears.

We are past the point of discussing "better pixels". It is now about "better sensors".

"Better sensor" indeed must contain "better pixels".

If you believe that you have the same results from lower-res sensor why then I need higher-res one? Just to battle with mammoth files? So-called "crop freedom" evaporates once you digitally enlarge image ultimately enlarging noise as well

Why are you talking about resolution when the actual discussion is about sensor size?? You do rather seem to be missing the point.

And no. A better sensor gives better overall images, not better "per-pixel" images. The two are not the same. Maybe you don't get that and that is why you are talking about resolution (in terms of pixel counts) and that is fine, but it is not the point.

Ok, I agree that Df sensor is better then D610 and D8x0. My theory that it is better because bigger pixels and I do not need exact exposure, correctly dowmsampling and accurate postprocessing, but rather can use images directly from camera with minimum adjustment to exposure if necessarily. And I prefer this simplicity. What next?

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