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Changing compensation at different shutter speeds.

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NewtoManual

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Hey guys,

I have a Canon EOS 70D and I'm a relatively noob photographer. But, I want to understand a few things.

First thing is: When I try to change my shutter speed to 1/60 in manual mode, it changes my AEB to overexpose by 3 stops. To make this so that it goes down to a neutral exposure, it turns my shutter speed to 1/200 or 1/400. I am wondering if there's a way to stop this?

Last question: I am trying to change my aperture to 3.2, but the minimum I can go to is 4.0. Is this set by the type of lens you have?

Sorry for the ridiculously nooby questions - I just wanted to try to jump into manual mode a bit more by using some of the settings I've seen recommended.

Much appreciated for the time!
 
PalmettoFellow said:
NewtoManual said:
That works. So I take it there is no way to keep all my current settings (400 ISO, 4 Aperture, and 1/60 shutter speed) and not have the camera itself change the exposure?
If that's the case, I'll keep playing around with the settings until the exposure come out correctly. I just wanted to know how much control I have over it and I'm relatively new to manual so that answer helps me out a lot. Appreciate it!
Click to expand...
In manual mode, the camera should not be changing exposure. You have full control.

If your scene is too bright at those settings:

(400 ISO, 4 Aperture, and 1/60 shutter speed)

And you want to keep the shutter speed at 1/60sec, then your aperture and ISO must change. I'd suggest taking ISO to 100 and see if that does what you want. If not, then take the aperture to 5.6 and see if that's what you want.

The camera will give you the meter reading, but it won't change anything to get a proper exposure. It just gives advice in manual mode, it does not make any changes.

That being said, if you're in auto-ISO, even in manual mode, it will then make ISO adjustments to exposure correctly. This can get weird as it will fight with you the whole time trying to keep the exposure at 0 by changing the ISO. I do not recommend auto-ISO with manual mode for a beginner.

There are times to use this, but you need to know what you're doing.
Click to expand...

Okay, I understand. I thought that it was actually changing the exposure based on the marker in the meter that was shown. I will play with the settings (ISO and Aperture) until I can find a good medium to where the image is not overly exposed or overly bright.

Thanks a bunch for replying to all the posts I've made - it's really helped me out.
 
NewtoManual said:
PalmettoFellow said:
NewtoManual said:
PalmettoFellow said:
AEB is auto exposure bracketing.

Are you using the correct acronym when you say that you're changing the AEB?

If so, how are you trying to change your shutter speed? If you open the "Q" menu and click on the part that looks like this:

-3..2..1..0..1..2..+3

Then that's what going on. You are bracketing to take multiple shots, each at a different exposure. That's not how you change shutter speed. You don't even have to click on that symbol. If you bring up the quick menu and start moving the shutter speed wheel, it will bracket for you.

Please confirm your workflow. Turn off camera, then turn back on and move the shutter speed adjustment wheel. Does your shutter speed change now?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Although I don't have bracketing on, I just have it set as a single shot and the marker is set under 0:

-3..2..1..0..1..2..+3

But when I go to take a picture at something like 1/60 shutter speed, it will show me this in the view finder:

-3..2..1..0..1..2..+3
In the view finder, the marker underneath will move from a range between +2.5 to +3. When I use the front dial to change the shutter speed, it will change the overexposure back to neutral, but that also changes my shutter speed to around 1/200 to 1/400 range.
I hope that makes sense - and I appreciate you answering the thread!
Click to expand...
I think there's still some terminology confusion. I think we can help you through this problem, but we need to get a few things straight.

AEB is bracketing, and even if you have it set to single shot, it will take a single shot, but it will make adjustments between each shot until the bracket is finished. 3 shots is normal, so 1 shot will be exposed normal, the next will be -1 and the last will be +1. You can learn more about this by searching google for "auto exposure bracketing"

I suspect however that you are simply talking about metering. The same symbol appears in the viewfinder:

-3..2..1..0..1..2..+3

And you get an arrow showing your exposure. When you bring that arrow back to 0, yout shutter speed goes to 1/200 sec, but you want it to be 1/60 sec. Is this correct? Am I understanding you correctly?

If so, what's your ISO? What's your aperture? If you increase your aperture, or decrease ISO, the arrow will also move towards the zero which you want...but your shutter speed can stay at 1/60 sec.

Please confirm you understand this before I write more.
Click to expand...
Yes, you're correct and I understand completely. I called it AEB because when I go into my quick menu it calls it Exposure Comp./AEB Setting.
My ISO is set to 400 and I am shooting inside with all the lights turned off except for my table top light (I'm shooting mainly food). I take it I will have to adjust the aperture and ISO for my exposure to come down?
Click to expand...
Let's forget AEB for a moment.

Exposure Compensation only applies to Av, Tv, or P mode. It would not apply in manual mode. I can explain why, but I'd be here typing for a few minutes.
 
Perfect - thanks for breaking it down into simplistic terms for me. I'll play around with settings and see what I can do. I was confused about the marker on the metering for the exposure, but as you said it won't actually change anything - so it's on my end rather than the camera's end. I appreciate all the time you've spent working with me to sort this out.
 
NewtoManual said:
NewtoManual said:
That works. So I take it there is no way to keep all my current settings (400 ISO, 4 Aperture, and 1/60 shutter speed) and not have the camera itself change the exposure?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Aperture, ISO, and shutter speed are the only three ways that a camera (or camera operator) can change image brightness. This is true whether you are in auto modes or manual mode. If you want the camera itself to change the image brightness, then I'd recommend setting your ISO to Auto.
 
PalmettoFellow said:
NewtoManual said:
PalmettoFellow said:
NewtoManual said:
PalmettoFellow said:
AEB is auto exposure bracketing.

Are you using the correct acronym when you say that you're changing the AEB?

If so, how are you trying to change your shutter speed? If you open the "Q" menu and click on the part that looks like this:

-3..2..1..0..1..2..+3

Then that's what going on. You are bracketing to take multiple shots, each at a different exposure. That's not how you change shutter speed. You don't even have to click on that symbol. If you bring up the quick menu and start moving the shutter speed wheel, it will bracket for you.

Please confirm your workflow. Turn off camera, then turn back on and move the shutter speed adjustment wheel. Does your shutter speed change now?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Although I don't have bracketing on, I just have it set as a single shot and the marker is set under 0:

-3..2..1..0..1..2..+3

But when I go to take a picture at something like 1/60 shutter speed, it will show me this in the view finder:

-3..2..1..0..1..2..+3
In the view finder, the marker underneath will move from a range between +2.5 to +3. When I use the front dial to change the shutter speed, it will change the overexposure back to neutral, but that also changes my shutter speed to around 1/200 to 1/400 range.
I hope that makes sense - and I appreciate you answering the thread!
Click to expand...
I think there's still some terminology confusion. I think we can help you through this problem, but we need to get a few things straight.

AEB is bracketing, and even if you have it set to single shot, it will take a single shot, but it will make adjustments between each shot until the bracket is finished. 3 shots is normal, so 1 shot will be exposed normal, the next will be -1 and the last will be +1. You can learn more about this by searching google for "auto exposure bracketing"

I suspect however that you are simply talking about metering. The same symbol appears in the viewfinder:

-3..2..1..0..1..2..+3

And you get an arrow showing your exposure. When you bring that arrow back to 0, yout shutter speed goes to 1/200 sec, but you want it to be 1/60 sec. Is this correct? Am I understanding you correctly?

If so, what's your ISO? What's your aperture? If you increase your aperture, or decrease ISO, the arrow will also move towards the zero which you want...but your shutter speed can stay at 1/60 sec.

Please confirm you understand this before I write more.
Click to expand...
Yes, you're correct and I understand completely. I called it AEB because when I go into my quick menu it calls it Exposure Comp./AEB Setting.
My ISO is set to 400 and I am shooting inside with all the lights turned off except for my table top light (I'm shooting mainly food). I take it I will have to adjust the aperture and ISO for my exposure to come down?
Click to expand...
Let's forget AEB for a moment.

Exposure Compensation only applies to Av, Tv, or P mode. It would not apply in manual mode. I can explain why, but I'd be here typing for a few minutes.
Click to expand...
Not to worry for now. I understand now from all of your previous posts/help as to why the images are coming out brighter than I want. I'll go back, readjust my ISO/Aperture, and see how it turns out. Seriously THANK YOU! :)
 
NewtoManual said:
PalmettoFellow said:
NewtoManual said:
That works. So I take it there is no way to keep all my current settings (400 ISO, 4 Aperture, and 1/60 shutter speed) and not have the camera itself change the exposure?
If that's the case, I'll keep playing around with the settings until the exposure come out correctly. I just wanted to know how much control I have over it and I'm relatively new to manual so that answer helps me out a lot. Appreciate it!
Click to expand...
In manual mode, the camera should not be changing exposure. You have full control.

If your scene is too bright at those settings:

(400 ISO, 4 Aperture, and 1/60 shutter speed)

And you want to keep the shutter speed at 1/60sec, then your aperture and ISO must change. I'd suggest taking ISO to 100 and see if that does what you want. If not, then take the aperture to 5.6 and see if that's what you want.

The camera will give you the meter reading, but it won't change anything to get a proper exposure. It just gives advice in manual mode, it does not make any changes.

That being said, if you're in auto-ISO, even in manual mode, it will then make ISO adjustments to exposure correctly. This can get weird as it will fight with you the whole time trying to keep the exposure at 0 by changing the ISO. I do not recommend auto-ISO with manual mode for a beginner.

There are times to use this, but you need to know what you're doing.
Click to expand...
Okay, I understand. I thought that it was actually changing the exposure based on the marker in the meter that was shown. I will play with the settings (ISO and Aperture) until I can find a good medium to where the image is not overly exposed or overly bright.
Thanks a bunch for replying to all the posts I've made - it's really helped me out.
Click to expand...
Is there a reason you want 1/60 sec, or are you emulating someone's settings? I usually try to let shutter speed be my main adjustment. There's nothing wrong with going to 1/200 sec. Are you trying to create motion blur? If your subject is still, then forget about emulating someone's settings. You take the picture that you are presented with. If changing to 1/200 gets you the exposure you want...then do it.

If you had a moving stream of water, and 1/200 made it look too crisp and sharp, then you may want to slower shutter speed...but if you're hand-holding the camera, you could end up with camera shake if shutter speed is too low.

In a nutshell, down't concern yourself with shutter speed unless you're doing it for a specific effect. Keep it higher than your focal length when hand-holding (do you know what I mean here?). Do you know about DoF? This is related to aperture, so I recommend using aperture more to set your DoF than your exposure. In some cases, you'll have to, but all the pieces will fall into place, and you'll know why you chose a specific setting for each element.
 
NewtoManual said:
jvkelley said:
NewtoManual said:
PalmettoFellow said:
NewtoManual said:
As I hold down the shutter button, it will show me that there is 2.5 - 3 stops of overexposure in 1/60 shutter speed. Then I can use the dial at the front to change the exposure bar back to neutral, but that changes my shutter speed.
When I go into the camera settings under exposure settings, I have it set to 0.
Click to expand...
That exactly right. What do you want to happen? How do you plan to change your exposure? Aperture? ISO? There are only 3 ways to affect exposure. You must adjust 1, 2 or all 3 of them.
Click to expand...
So there is no way to take my picture with 1/60 shutterspeed under this lighting while having an exposure of 0? I don't care if it looks darker because right now it looks overly white.
Click to expand...
You can do this a few ways:

Use a smaller aperture (larger f number)

Use a lower ISO

Use an ND filter (a dark filter that attaches to the front of you lens)

--
J.V.
Click to expand...
That works. So I take it there is no way to keep all my current settings (400 ISO, 4 Aperture, and 1/60 shutter speed) and not have the camera itself change the exposure?
Click to expand...
The camera is not changing the exposure. It is telling you that at your current setting the image will be over-exposed. If you press the shutter it will still take the picture, but it will come out too bright.
NewtoManual said:
If that's the case, I'll keep playing around with the settings until the exposure come out correctly. I just wanted to know how much control I have over it and I'm relatively new to manual so that answer helps me out a lot. Appreciate it!
Click to expand...
 
PalmettoFellow said:
NewtoManual said:
PalmettoFellow said:
NewtoManual said:
That works. So I take it there is no way to keep all my current settings (400 ISO, 4 Aperture, and 1/60 shutter speed) and not have the camera itself change the exposure?
If that's the case, I'll keep playing around with the settings until the exposure come out correctly. I just wanted to know how much control I have over it and I'm relatively new to manual so that answer helps me out a lot. Appreciate it!
Click to expand...
In manual mode, the camera should not be changing exposure. You have full control.

If your scene is too bright at those settings:

(400 ISO, 4 Aperture, and 1/60 shutter speed)

And you want to keep the shutter speed at 1/60sec, then your aperture and ISO must change. I'd suggest taking ISO to 100 and see if that does what you want. If not, then take the aperture to 5.6 and see if that's what you want.

The camera will give you the meter reading, but it won't change anything to get a proper exposure. It just gives advice in manual mode, it does not make any changes.

That being said, if you're in auto-ISO, even in manual mode, it will then make ISO adjustments to exposure correctly. This can get weird as it will fight with you the whole time trying to keep the exposure at 0 by changing the ISO. I do not recommend auto-ISO with manual mode for a beginner.

There are times to use this, but you need to know what you're doing.
Click to expand...
Okay, I understand. I thought that it was actually changing the exposure based on the marker in the meter that was shown. I will play with the settings (ISO and Aperture) until I can find a good medium to where the image is not overly exposed or overly bright.
Thanks a bunch for replying to all the posts I've made - it's really helped me out.
Click to expand...
Is there a reason you want 1/60 sec, or are you emulating someone's settings? I usually try to let shutter speed be my main adjustment. There's nothing wrong with going to 1/200 sec. Are you trying to create motion blur? If your subject is still, then forget about emulating someone's settings. You take the picture that you are presented with. If changing to 1/200 gets you the exposure you want...then do it.

If you had a moving stream of water, and 1/200 made it look too crisp and sharp, then you may want to slower shutter speed...but if you're hand-holding the camera, you could end up with camera shake if shutter speed is too low.

In a nutshell, down't concern yourself with shutter speed unless you're doing it for a specific effect. Keep it higher than your focal length when hand-holding (do you know what I mean here?). Do you know about DoF? This is related to aperture, so I recommend using aperture more to set your DoF than your exposure. In some cases, you'll have to, but all the pieces will fall into place, and you'll know why you chose a specific setting for each element.
Click to expand...
That was exactly it - I was just trying to emulate someone elses settings with the same setup I have. I really do appreciate all the help/tips you're giving and I'm sure it'll lead me to take some better pictures. I just wanted to have a bit more control over my pictures in the end and that's why I chose to start shooting in manual.

I always shoot still images (food), and I always hand hold the camera, although I am planning to get a tripod soon.

Thanks for all the help, replies, and patience you've had with me :)
 
This thread goes over some basic stuff. I thought I'd put the basics in one post.

Try to think of each of the main settings independently. If someone suggests photo settings of 1/60 seconds, f/4, and ISO 400, ask yourself "why 1/60?" "why f/4" and "why ISO 400?" Here are some tips to think this way...

Shutter Speed is used to adjust motion blur. If you are shooting a still subject from a tripod, this can be set to anything you want. If you are shooting handheld, 1/60 is probably a good starting point for your 17-40mm lens. If you are getting too much motion blur, this needs to be set to something faster. If you want more motion blur, this needs to be slower.

A slower shutter speed lets in more light and will result in a brighter image. A faster shutter speed lets in less light and will result in a darker image.

Aperture is used to adjust depth of field. If you want less depth of field use a larger aperture (smaller f number). If you want more depth of field, use a smaller aperture (larger f number).

A larger aperture (smaller f number) lets in more light and will result in a brighter image. A smaller aperture (larger f number) lets in less light and will result in a darker image.

ISO used to adjust image brightness, but it is also rough indicator of how much noise the image will have. If you have too much noise, adjust your shutter or aperture so that the camera will let in more light, and then lower the ISO so that the image brightness will be correct.

Using a higher ISO will result in a brighter image. If the exposure is correct, high ISO means more noise. Using a lower ISO will result in a darker image. If the exposure is correct, low ISO means less noise.

--
J.V.
 
Last edited:
Looks like most of the kinks have been sorted out.

Here are a few great online resources to get you rolling...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=414088

http://www.shortcourses.com/use/

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/learning-to-see.shtml

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/

http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html

For food/product photography, I'd suggest using a smaller aperture than wide open (wide open being f/4 with your current lens). You would gain a lot more depth of field shooting at say f/11 (more of the subject will be in focus). However you'll need to adjust your shutter speed by a commensurate amount to maintain correct exposure (as has been mentioned).

I wouldn't adjust the ISO higher than 400, in order to keep the noise levels down. This will help you retain maximum detail. You may need to use a tripod though if the shutter speed is too slow, and you're getting too much blur (from camera shake). If you get a tripod, I'd highly recommend also purchasing a remote shutter release (very handy). The 10-second self-timer will do in a pinch though (but never use the 2-second self-timer).

Also keep in mind that the lighting will have the largest impact on how the photo will turn out. Normally the more diffuse the lighting, the better. I like using large softboxes.

I think it's great that you're trying out manual mode. Big congrats there!

Happy shooting, and good luck with your venture,

R2
 
R2D2 said:
Looks like most of the kinks have been sorted out.

Here are a few great online resources to get you rolling...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=414088

http://www.shortcourses.com/use/

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/learning-to-see.shtml

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/

http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html

For food/product photography, I'd suggest using a smaller aperture than wide open (wide open being f/4 with your current lens). You would gain a lot more depth of field shooting at say f/11 (more of the subject will be in focus). However you'll need to adjust your shutter speed by a commensurate amount to maintain correct exposure (as has been mentioned).

I wouldn't adjust the ISO higher than 400, in order to keep the noise levels down. This will help you retain maximum detail. You may need to use a tripod though if the shutter speed is too slow, and you're getting too much blur (from camera shake). If you get a tripod, I'd highly recommend also purchasing a remote shutter release (very handy). The 10-second self-timer will do in a pinch though (but never use the 2-second self-timer).

Also keep in mind that the lighting will have the largest impact on how the photo will turn out. Normally the more diffuse the lighting, the better. I like using large softboxes.

I think it's great that you're trying out manual mode. Big congrats there!

Happy shooting, and good luck with your venture,

R2
Click to expand...
 
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