Merrill vs. Quattro in a word.

And?

They don't count unless you are not confident to do better. But surely you can do better than that.

The first one is excusable, for being a noisy 30" exposure image that needs a handsome dose of noise reduction.

--
Maple
No, we are talking about painting. M never smears pixels into painting like that at any conditions.

Edit: Scrutinize my 30s ugly pic here, any smearing, even the trees move under wind?

81c6e52b75c2498cb5cbcb578bc94bde.jpg
May I can edit your jpeg please ? I can render this picture completely stunning :)



--
Kind regards - http://www.hulyssbowman.com
SIGMA forum is like Dallas. You'll get used to it.
 
Merrill - grit

Quattro - oil painting
I find this comparison quite accurate based on the images on the web from the DP2Q. I like it gritty, although there is potential for the DP2Q.
 
M: Character: for the creative and artistic minds wanting to reproduce what they see the way they want it

Q: Balance: for mere mortals knowing only to record what they see as they see it.
 
Then how about this

https://plus.google.com/photos/+Joc...6036032550047023010&oid=102260924343967128597

and this

https://plus.google.com/photos/+Joc...6036032547941560818&oid=102260924343967128597

They don't have the level of micro contrast as the M's. But I find them nonetheless have enough of them, in more subtle and natural ways. They seem to match my visual experience better. M OTOH has excessive amount of micro contrast details, more than what our (or only my?) eyes see in reality. And that could ruin an otherwise good photo.

Perhaps M is for the creative and artist minds, and Q is for us mere mortals. Seriously and no sarcasm intended.
 
How about two words. In film terms, Merrill is Kodachrome 25 because of its high edge sharpness, and Quattro is Fuji Astia because of its smooth tonalities and more naturalistic color.
I'd tend to agree with that having scanned in piles of slides.

I did notice that they all had the painterly look to them, more than digital. I found it on some photos the best look. It gave a nice relaxed image. Still the same image.

In the near future, I envision cameras being able to simulate film and slides with a touch of a button. Simulate it in a believable way to a dedicated slide scanner.

They obviously started to optimize for noise reduction in the Q. This had the effect of reducing some detail. All engineering decisions are tradeoffs. I personally think the Q look reminds me more of slides than the M ever did, (the way I scanned them in). The M has a hyper-realistic look to it.

One last item. When I uprez in photozoom, it has an option to introduce film grain. The texture on the q images looks suspiciously like the photozoom files. I bet they are using some uprez program in the camera and including some film grain simulation.
I've actually been wondering if the "film grain" look wasn't a result of the binned lower layers being combined with the non-binned upper layer. The "watercolor + film grain" look could be consistent with the "color data from all layers, luminosity data from the top layer" processing as discussed in the literature.
 
M - evolution

Q - mutation
 
How about two words. In film terms, Merrill is Kodachrome 25 because of its high edge sharpness, and Quattro is Fuji Astia because of its smooth tonalities and more naturalistic color.
I'd tend to agree with that having scanned in piles of slides.

I did notice that they all had the painterly look to them, more than digital. I found it on some photos the best look. It gave a nice relaxed image. Still the same image.

In the near future, I envision cameras being able to simulate film and slides with a touch of a button. Simulate it in a believable way to a dedicated slide scanner.

They obviously started to optimize for noise reduction in the Q. This had the effect of reducing some detail. All engineering decisions are tradeoffs. I personally think the Q look reminds me more of slides than the M ever did, (the way I scanned them in). The M has a hyper-realistic look to it.

One last item. When I uprez in photozoom, it has an option to introduce film grain. The texture on the q images looks suspiciously like the photozoom files. I bet they are using some uprez program in the camera and including some film grain simulation.
I've actually been wondering if the "film grain" look wasn't a result of the binned lower layers being combined with the non-binned upper layer. The "watercolor + film grain" look could be consistent with the "color data from all layers, luminosity data from the top layer" processing as discussed in the literature.
And there isn't any of this processing of the different types of information from the sensor that isn't subject to some adjustment, some choices, in how to process the information, almost all of which is hidden in the usual processing of an image. Not that this is evil or wicked, or even a mistake, it's just that the user ends up with a different "look" and doesn't quite know why.

Richard
 
Another interesting way to put it, Rick.

But with Q, you see trees, too, much more than Bayer lets you, though less of the pine needles half a mile away as M may allow.
 
How about two words. In film terms, Merrill is Kodachrome 25 because of its high edge sharpness, and Quattro is Fuji Astia because of its smooth tonalities and more naturalistic color.
I'd tend to agree with that having scanned in piles of slides.

I did notice that they all had the painterly look to them, more than digital. I found it on some photos the best look. It gave a nice relaxed image. Still the same image.

In the near future, I envision cameras being able to simulate film and slides with a touch of a button. Simulate it in a believable way to a dedicated slide scanner.

They obviously started to optimize for noise reduction in the Q. This had the effect of reducing some detail. All engineering decisions are tradeoffs. I personally think the Q look reminds me more of slides than the M ever did, (the way I scanned them in). The M has a hyper-realistic look to it.

One last item. When I uprez in photozoom, it has an option to introduce film grain. The texture on the q images looks suspiciously like the photozoom files. I bet they are using some uprez program in the camera and including some film grain simulation.
I've actually been wondering if the "film grain" look wasn't a result of the binned lower layers being combined with the non-binned upper layer. The "watercolor + film grain" look could be consistent with the "color data from all layers, luminosity data from the top layer" processing as discussed in the literature.
The "film grain" I suspect is from taking what is basically a 5mp sensor and enlarging it to a 20mp size. If I did that with my SD15 I'd get a lot of "grain" myself.
 
How about two words. In film terms, Merrill is Kodachrome 25 because of its high edge sharpness, and Quattro is Fuji Astia because of its smooth tonalities and more naturalistic color.
I'd tend to agree with that having scanned in piles of slides.

I did notice that they all had the painterly look to them, more than digital. I found it on some photos the best look. It gave a nice relaxed image. Still the same image.

In the near future, I envision cameras being able to simulate film and slides with a touch of a button. Simulate it in a believable way to a dedicated slide scanner.

They obviously started to optimize for noise reduction in the Q. This had the effect of reducing some detail. All engineering decisions are tradeoffs. I personally think the Q look reminds me more of slides than the M ever did, (the way I scanned them in). The M has a hyper-realistic look to it.

One last item. When I uprez in photozoom, it has an option to introduce film grain. The texture on the q images looks suspiciously like the photozoom files. I bet they are using some uprez program in the camera and including some film grain simulation.
I've actually been wondering if the "film grain" look wasn't a result of the binned lower layers being combined with the non-binned upper layer. The "watercolor + film grain" look could be consistent with the "color data from all layers, luminosity data from the top layer" processing as discussed in the literature.
The "film grain" I suspect is from taking what is basically a 5mp sensor and enlarging it to a 20mp size. If I did that with my SD15 I'd get a lot of "grain" myself.
No, you wouldn't. See my new thread.

I spent time looking at the "spray of sand" photo at high magnification and I can't discern a "2x2" pattern in there that you would expect from a 5mp image uprezzed to 20mp.

The noise seems random. Arbitrary. Any pattern you see is probably a product of your mind trying to discern patterns into chaos. Yes there are blocks of logic in there, but overall - random or pseudorandom.

At the moment my best guess is "layer with little data x layer with a lot of data = exaggerated noise".

For example "Red 10 or 15 or 20" and "Green 50 or 60 or 70" and "Blue 160 or 170 or 180"

You multiply it all out and subtle variations in red & green result in major variations in blue or vice versa. Or it was added in post (software, not hardware based).

5edef3191c6c4b00a01043272e3b3c7a.jpg
 
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How about two words. In film terms, Merrill is Kodachrome 25 because of its high edge sharpness, and Quattro is Fuji Astia because of its smooth tonalities and more naturalistic color.
I'd tend to agree with that having scanned in piles of slides.

I did notice that they all had the painterly look to them, more than digital. I found it on some photos the best look. It gave a nice relaxed image. Still the same image.

In the near future, I envision cameras being able to simulate film and slides with a touch of a button. Simulate it in a believable way to a dedicated slide scanner.

They obviously started to optimize for noise reduction in the Q. This had the effect of reducing some detail. All engineering decisions are tradeoffs. I personally think the Q look reminds me more of slides than the M ever did, (the way I scanned them in). The M has a hyper-realistic look to it.

One last item. When I uprez in photozoom, it has an option to introduce film grain. The texture on the q images looks suspiciously like the photozoom files. I bet they are using some uprez program in the camera and including some film grain simulation.
I've actually been wondering if the "film grain" look wasn't a result of the binned lower layers being combined with the non-binned upper layer. The "watercolor + film grain" look could be consistent with the "color data from all layers, luminosity data from the top layer" processing as discussed in the literature.
The "film grain" I suspect is from taking what is basically a 5mp sensor and enlarging it to a 20mp size. If I did that with my SD15 I'd get a lot of "grain" myself.
No, you wouldn't. See my new thread.

I spent time looking at the "spray of sand" photo at high magnification and I can't discern a "2x2" pattern in there that you would expect from a 5mp image uprezzed to 20mp.

The noise seems random. Arbitrary. Any pattern you see is probably a product of your mind trying to discern patterns into chaos. Yes there are blocks of logic in there, but overall - random or pseudorandom.

At the moment my best guess is "layer with little data x layer with a lot of data = exaggerated noise".

For example "Red 10 or 15 or 20" and "Green 50 or 60 or 70" and "Blue 160 or 170 or 180"

You multiply it all out and subtle variations in red & green result in major variations in blue or vice versa. Or it was added in post (software, not hardware based).

5edef3191c6c4b00a01043272e3b3c7a.jpg
From my experimentation I believe that the "sand" is caused by the default sharpening in SPP being set too high for the Quattro. I found that if I set the sharpening to -2 and then sharpen to taste in PS with Threshold set to 12 and Radius set to 1.0 or higher it minimizes it greatly.
 
I disagree- it looks like a photograph to me- only I believe, as an ex DP2M user that these quattro images have been saharpened-and not accurately and that gives the result, could be wrong. Should be no more than 0.2 pixels at 400 max, not more.
 
I find this photo quite stunning and could imagine this selling in a gallery (it's very commercial is what I'm saying).

Between that photo & these OOC JPGs and these clouds I look at the photos and just think - oil painting.
Honestly, sometimes I think there is some sort of hazardous effect from long-term exposure to Foveon colors. I haven't been on this forum for a while but what I've seen over the last couple of day is, without exaggeration, just shocking. People are posting samples that are completely contaminated with green or magenta blotches or absolutely unreal colors (too blue, too yellow, too grey, you name it) and seriously proclaim their almost cult-like love with Foveon. Again, very honestly, I have not seen ANYTHIG pleasing in terms of colors to my foveon-free eyes from what I've seen so far (be it portraits, landscapes, or macros). I still like what I was able to get from my DP2 but what I see here now is, in my mind, some sort of degradation in standards. This is not to assault anyone, just an honest opinion of a former "Foveon-addict". ;-) Peace.
 
I find this photo quite stunning and could imagine this selling in a gallery (it's very commercial is what I'm saying).

Between that photo & these OOC JPGs and these clouds I look at the photos and just think - oil painting.
Honestly, sometimes I think there is some sort of hazardous effect from long-term exposure to Foveon colors. I haven't been on this forum for a while but what I've seen over the last couple of day is, without exaggeration, just shocking. People are posting samples that are completely contaminated with green or magenta blotches or absolutely unreal colors (too blue, too yellow, too grey, you name it) and seriously proclaim their almost cult-like love with Foveon. Again, very honestly, I have not seen ANYTHIG pleasing in terms of colors to my foveon-free eyes from what I've seen so far (be it portraits, landscapes, or macros). I still like what I was able to get from my DP2 but what I see here now is, in my mind, some sort of degradation in standards. This is not to assault anyone, just an honest opinion of a former "Foveon-addict". ;-) Peace.
Can you show us your professional certificate of your eyes color perception :D ?
 
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I find this photo quite stunning and could imagine this selling in a gallery (it's very commercial is what I'm saying).

Between that photo & these OOC JPGs and these clouds I look at the photos and just think - oil painting.
Honestly, sometimes I think there is some sort of hazardous effect from long-term exposure to Foveon colors. I haven't been on this forum for a while but what I've seen over the last couple of day is, without exaggeration, just shocking. People are posting samples that are completely contaminated with green or magenta blotches or absolutely unreal colors (too blue, too yellow, too grey, you name it) and seriously proclaim their almost cult-like love with Foveon. Again, very honestly, I have not seen ANYTHIG pleasing in terms of colors to my foveon-free eyes from what I've seen so far (be it portraits, landscapes, or macros). I still like what I was able to get from my DP2 but what I see here now is, in my mind, some sort of degradation in standards. This is not to assault anyone, just an honest opinion of a former "Foveon-addict". ;-) Peace.
I kind of agree. Maybe Bayer has come a long way and the Foveon advantage has all but disappeared. I still like the images that came from my SD14. Maybe Foveon is actually better with less Mp. Makes sense as large photosites are better at light gathering no matter what the sensor. I find the hyper detail of Merrills a bit much.
 
I find this photo quite stunning and could imagine this selling in a gallery (it's very commercial is what I'm saying).

Between that photo & these OOC JPGs and these clouds I look at the photos and just think - oil painting.
Honestly, sometimes I think there is some sort of hazardous effect from long-term exposure to Foveon colors. I haven't been on this forum for a while but what I've seen over the last couple of day is, without exaggeration, just shocking. People are posting samples that are completely contaminated with green or magenta blotches or absolutely unreal colors (too blue, too yellow, too grey, you name it) and seriously proclaim their almost cult-like love with Foveon. Again, very honestly, I have not seen ANYTHIG pleasing in terms of colors to my foveon-free eyes from what I've seen so far (be it portraits, landscapes, or macros). I still like what I was able to get from my DP2 but what I see here now is, in my mind, some sort of degradation in standards. This is not to assault anyone, just an honest opinion of a former "Foveon-addict". ;-) Peace.
I kind of agree. Maybe Bayer has come a long way and the Foveon advantage has all but disappeared. I still like the images that came from my SD14. Maybe Foveon is actually better with less Mp. Makes sense as large photosites are better at light gathering no matter what the sensor. I find the hyper detail of Merrills a bit much.
Frankly I don't understand your logics. Same FOV, my SD14 can not resolve eyes lashes, my Merrill can then you complain detail too much? My SD14 stuck with only one color palette and no noise control, with M I have all. The beauty of M is I can create a very neutral image which can be enhanced by myriad of filters for final taste but not with my SD14.
 
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