Imagine new E-mount camera's with IBIS !!

Started Jul 10, 2014 | Discussions thread
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blue_skies Forum Pro • Posts: 10,588
Re: Exactly...

nevercat wrote:

First: remember this is not a real rumor, just a poll, based on a remark that IBIS is techhnicly possible in an E-mount camera. Don't expect to much from this.

About IBIS:

I own both a Nex 5 and an A700 so I know all about the bennefits of IBIS. IBIS is very handy for hand held video for all focal lengths. IBIS is very handybfor stills with longer FLs when the lens has no stabilisation. IBIS is not as effective as OBIS (Out of Body Immage Stabilisation, like a monopod or tripod, or a beansack, or a tree branch).

IBIS can harm the IQ when it is left on when using a tripod. IBIS can get defective making every picture useless. All of the above goes for in lens stabilisation too, exept you can switch lenses when it get broken in one lens.

Towork correctly IBIS must know the FL of the used lens. So you have to set the FL when using a lens that can't tell the camera what FL is used. Using zoom lenses that are not electronicly connected to the camera is very difficult as you have to set the lens to the desired FL, read it from the lens, set it in the menu then take your picture. When the FL is not set correctly, changes are that your picture is ruined by the IBIS.

IBIS is a tool, use it well and your IQ will improve. Use it wrong and there will be no effect or it can have a dramaticly effect on the IQ.

How did I vote? The it would be nice option....

Will Sony listen to this poll? I don't think so. Why not? Sony will do what they think is best for them. When they think it will harm their sales it will be left out, when they think itmwill boost their sales they create a cameramwith IBIS.

But you have to remember that every system comes with it own down sites. So it is very well possible that a camera with IBIS will be larger, heavier, more power use and more expensive. These downsides are not taken in consideration in the poll.

IBIS is very important for video and *can* be useful under certain low light conditions.

For video, IBIS (or IS/OSS) smooths out the handheld shake, and is a must have. Otherwise different (larger) contraptions should be considered to improve the video quality. Shaky video is just that, shaky.

For still images, IBIS is very much overrated. IBIS is very useful with EVF and CDAF/OSPDAF because it smoothens out the image, allowing easier (on the eyes) view of scene, and focus, and this same applies to the AF system. It helps AF in both cases, especially under low light.

But the range for which IBIS makes a meaningful difference is from 'sturdy' (tripod/beanbag) mount to 'does no longer matter' (handheld) mount.

For most of us the 1/FL rule applies (for FF, multiple FL by crop factor for crop). That is, 1/60th for a 60mm FF (or 40mm APS-C) and 1/100th for a 100mm FF (or 60mm APS-C), and so on.

Below 1/10th, again varying depending on FL, handheld is not really the way to go. Bring a small or large tripod, a bean bag, or find another way to support the camera - IS is not the way to go. And if you do support the camera, remember to turn IS off.

So, for most of us, IS is *mostly* helpful in the 1/20-1/40th SS range (with some higher number for longer telephoto lenses). And this is *not* a range to use with people subjects - they will blur just by themselves...

On the FF cameras, you would seldom have to use this range: f/2.8 and 1/30th is for a very dark scene - similar applies to f/1.8 and 1/30th on APS-C (using appropriate ISO choices).

IS becomes handy for slow lenses: if you have a zoom lens limited to f/4 (or slower) - then your ISO/SS trade-off WILL put you in this 1/20-1/30th territory.

Or, if you use a smaller sensor, such as m43 or CX, you WILL enter this same territory. That is why for such formats IBIS is a must have.

With the APS-C or FF E mounts, having a few IS (OSS) lenses suffices - for those cases when it is helpful. All other lenses, when properly used, are fine without OSS.

Of course, zoom and video applications are best to include OSS - but for primes, it remains debatable. E.g. compare the Zeiss Touit 35 wo/ OSS to the Sony E35 w/ OSS - which lens to get? And consider that the FE55 (equivalent FL) has no OSS...

I do follow Zeiss strategy: OSS/IS is degrading a (prime) lens quality, and if you must rely on the OSS/IS, you are probably not taking the best pictures that you could, so why bother? Besides, OSS introduces problems of a different nature (and should be turned off at times).

I think that Sony does not want IBIS in the E-mount cameras for a variety of reasons. Durability and quality of construction for starters, battery life comes next, dust and cleaning is another reason. Then there is the extra cost and user support/operational issues (enter FL, or turn on/off), there is a heat dissipation issue (no back-plate possible, sensor has to be able to move), and between either support for video or support for IS, I guess that video will always win. And so on...

Sure it can be done - but smaller sensors are easier than larger sensors. And if larger sensors, a larger body helps (if only for heat dissipation profiles). The fact that A cameras have it and E cameras do not, stems from decisions made long time ago (and some by Minolta).

A E3500 type body (E-mount in SLT-A like body) with IBIS makes sense. Seeing IBIS in a Nex (Axxxx) or A7 type body is probably a pipe dream. But a future A7500, shaped alike the E3500, with all the bells and whistles of a high end APS-C camera, including IBIS, is something that I can see finding a market share. And the same could be done for an A7 derivative (larger body as well).

Anyways, shots at 1/20th to 1/40th always have subject blur in them - consider this...

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