A6000 vs. A77ii Continuous AF - Very confused

Started May 14, 2014 | Discussions thread
VirtualMirage Veteran Member • Posts: 3,956
Re: For Mike

JamieTux wrote:

123Mike wrote:

JamieTux wrote:

In addition to Paul's response please read my post above http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53673131
The only person attacking anything is you - you are then forcing someone to "attack" you (in your eyes) back - by stating opinions and facts as Paul explained. Please reread the original posters question and then look at this part of the thread.

I'm not attacking. I'm defending my position that I am free to offer my opinion in an open forum, that neither you, nor Paul, owns or rules.

Maybe there is some history with you guys, I don't know - to me as an outside observer it looked like Paul put up a list of reasons that the A77ii would cost more (and my impression was that he was looking at why it cost more to make)

You then commented on each if those points as though he was attacking you.

You're right I don't own ithus forum, I assume that Paul doesn't own Amazon and therefore doesn't own the forum too! But I'm not trying to say you're opinion is wrong, I dont think I've said that I would pay a lot more for an A77ii than an A6000 (or vice versa) in fact what started my participation in the thread was a question from the OP that I answered and another that I couldn't as I've not used the 2 cameras enough to give accurate information.

Some others share my opinions. It is my opinion that the A6000 is as formidable a camera as the A77ii is. I think it is incorrect information to see claims how the A77ii's AF system has to be automatically superior. While I'm seeing how people state that ultimately, the only way to know is by doing side by side tests and comparisons, at the same time stories are constructed and parroted around how an SLT can see the subject full time, uninterrupted. While that may be true, it does not imply that the A6000 is automatically inferior. Perhaps all the A6000 needs is a single frame to draw the conclusions it needs, and it can get that frame between each 1/11s shot.

Where do stories come into it? An SLT can see the subject full time, uninterrupted... It's not reading form the sensor, it's not blocked by a shutter and the mirror doesn't move... So that's a fact, not a story.

That does not mean that the AF system of the A77ii is better at tracking than the A6000 is, yet that *is* what is being implied.

I didnt trad that anything was implied, just that the A77ii could track the whole time and the A6000 had to have breaks in the tracking. Pro level Canon and Nikon both have breaks in tracking and rely on predictive tracking but they are still the best at it from any camera that I've had a lot of experience with.

Whether that gives any benefit is a different question but Paul did not give an opinion on performance.

A superiority was implied.

Ok we read that differently, my assumption is that the A77ii will be better for tracking but I've not used it enough to support that and I've used the A6000 even less.

You have no idea who has done what testing though Mike... We've seen Gustav's latest (A77II work) so we know that there is at least one real physical operational body out there - as with all new releases there are probably NDAs in place too. Notice how no one else in this portion of the thread is giving an opinion and stating it as fact.

What's with all the must-not-express-opinions-because-you-might-pose-them-as-facts. It's not bloody contracts we're writing here.

You're right it's not contract writing but if you go back and reread it's the fact that you argued every fact that Paul wrote that caused this part of the thread to explode. You keep stating why the A6000 is better by dismissing, ignoring or arguing facts, and Paul's not said that the A77ii is the better camera, just listed some points to do with costs/pricing.

In summary my opinion is that you need to calm down and stop taking Paul's objective list as a statement that the A6000 is an inferior camera and instead read it as a list of differences between the 2 cameras that may add cost (which is the question the OP asked).

I think the cost difference *could* be justified, but not in the same way. Yes, the extra physical stuff makes up part of it. The separate PDAF sensor does. The SLT mirror does. The weather proofing does. But I think what also is part of it, is that the E-mount bodies are subsidized in the hopes that people will buy expensive E-mount lenses.

Maybe, but that's an opinion, personally I don't think thay the è mount lenses are expensive, the 24-70 and 70-200 are much cheaper than their amount equivalents (admittedly they are a stop slower too).

I think that the A77ii costs more to build and is in a market that they know will support that price. I think that the whole range of mirrorless are maybe more competitively priced as Sony want a bigger share of that more volatile market and they have a history of working that way when they are pushing technology.

But they are both guesses

But what drives all this, is the choices that people make. One might try to justify spending that extra money, and then see that the specs of the A6000 makes it just as competent of a camera system than the A77ii offers. Ok, so, that person might choose the A6000 then. But there are other issues, like the ones raised. Also, the E-mount lenses are expensive, not that all good A-mount lenses are cheap either.

So, what happens is that different view points materialize. Paul does not like my point of view.

I really haven't seen that, sorry Mike. I've seen that he didn't like you attacking his objective list and felt the need to defend it, but I've not read him say anything negative about the A6000 as a camera or even for any specific use case.

The fact is that I am not going to try to be helpful and explain this to you again in this thread.

It is a fact that the aggression here is taking away from the creativity. It is *NOT* me that is being aggressive. I'm force to have to defend the fact that should be allowed to express my opinion, just like anyone else is. Things look all distorted now here. Nice.

Of course you can express your opinion! I don't think anyone is saying anything different are they?

What seems to be objected to is the dismissive treatment of facts

As an example I complete agree with you that for me there is no point to having 12fps vs 11fps (or even 3fps) but it doesn't mean that it won't impact someone else.

I rarely shoot over 1/4000s and if I hit that limitation I would stop down so that doesn't affect me personally either.

As for the power of onboard flashes, apart from the GH3 I don't think I've had one for the last 3 or 4 years so again that's irrelevant to me.

But those 3 things all add cost whether I want then or not.

Again apologies if I've missed something here but that's the way things appear to me.

Anyway its late here, I'm off - have a good day/ evening!


You are spot on and hit the nail on the head.  I am glad that you understand where I am coming from on this.  What you said pretty much sums up exactly what my issue was.

Also, as far as I know, I don't have any history with Mike.  From what I recall, we usually see eye to eye on most things.  There are a few things that we may not, but I won't list them since I am unable to confirm at the moment if those few things are with him or someone else with a similar name.  But again, I don't expect him or anyone else to see everything exactly the same way I do.

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