Canon 7D is 4 years and 8 months old this is not good for Canon

Started Apr 30, 2014 | Discussions thread
RobertoAvanzi Senior Member • Posts: 1,003
Re: Not a reasonable comparison

Loren Charif wrote:

RobertoAvanzi wrote:

meland wrote:

By saying the 7D is dead some of those existing users sitting on their upgrade cash might switch to something non-Canon. That certainly doesn't benefit Canon.

How many are there, that sit on some upgrade cash and "need" to spend it? Are we reduced to be just dumb consumers, that instead of using reliable tools, as soon as we have the money we need to burn it?

Where exactly did I say they "need" to spend it? OTOH, I suspect many "want" to spend it. I did not write that second paragraph (beginning with "By saying the 7D is dead"); I'm not sure where it came from, but, if you go back to my post, it's not there.

I was not directly responding to you here, but mostly taking a clue from what you said, i.e. I was replying in an inspirational (?) and not confrontational way

There are of course two ways of "sitting" on some upgrade cash: saving the money waiting for the best tech advancements that produce a significant advantage in your shooting experience, or be a victim of consumerism.

But, photographers with a significant investment in lenses will then end to stick with one brand. For those of them that have a 7D, the camera is still serving them well, and if most lenses are EF, the cost of picking a 5D mark III will not be significant. If they have some important EF-S lenses, they may wait, or buy a new lens, or may even switch to a 5D mark III if they do not have to repurchase/swap many lenses, and it may cost less than going Nikon or SONY.

I'm not sure I'd agree that the upgrade cost to a 5DIII is not significant. Further, there are lots of 7D owners who do not want to move to full frame, and, after getting used to the 7D's 8fps, may not be willing to accept fewer fps (even with the enhanced IQ of the 5DIII).

It is quite significant if you compare it to just changing a body.

But, say, if you have to change all your lenses to move to SONY (Canon lenses keep a old resale value, but of course used sell for less than new - and SONY equivalents, when available, are usually more expensive). The upgrade cost of a new APS-C SONY body and several lenses can easily match that of just moving to a 5DIII. The actual cost will be often less, sometimes more, but I guesstimate that for an enthusiast with a few lenses the costs may be comparable.

I think that the folks here that say "I have a 10D, 20D, 40D, 60D, 7D and now I am disappointed that Canon has given us a 70D but not a 7D mark II" are a bit out of touch with reality and should start taking pictures with their cameras

Why are they out of touch? The 7D's almost 5 year run is out of character compared to Canon's normal upgrade cycle in the xxD series. And, for that matter, 1D and 5D. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to want/expect an upgrade after 5 years.

Yes, it is reasonable to expect an upgrade. However I was putting that in a very specific context: I was referring to folks that feel the urge of upgrading almost every time Canon puts out a new camera. There are folks here on DPR, that, for instance, write things like "I have a 10D, a 20D, a 40D, then I bought a 7D as a second body, then I upgraded the 40D to the 50D, now I have also a 70D, but where is the 7D mark II?". I am not sure this is the best way to spend your own money. Also, These are relatively harmless, because they are probably a minority. If they decide to sell all they have, this may be even good for Canon, since they will be selling their cameras to different people, which will all need some glass!

It is of course disappointing too see that Canon's APS-C flagship is not getting an update, but apart from the new Fuji X-TRANS sensors, no APS-C sensor on the market has a significant noise profile and/or DR advantage over Canon ones.The best QE for APS-C cameras is around 50%, so one cannot expect more than 1 stop DR improvement, whereas the best improvements are to be obtained from the readout noise (min 2.3e for the Canon 70D, min 1.1e for the Nikon D7100, here there is one stop). At this point the financial investment required to approach the ideal sensors further may be prohibitive.

Then, it is is indeed better, technologically and economically, to invest resources into new technologies and try to leapfrog the competition, while you still have the market advantage. Also, it makes sense to try the technologies in lower tier models, instead of risking a failure where it would most hurt the reputation - that's why we have the dual pixel AF tech in the 70D first. Also, canon has a new foundry since the end of 2012 at the 180nm process, but since this is a new tech for them and it is a very conservative company, they may want to see how the tech behaves on lower tier products before entrusting APS-C and FF sensors to the new manufacturing process - a couple of years of "beta testing" is not unheard of in the semiconductor industry.

This can explain what is happening, of course there are many other factors at play, such as data that Canon most likely has and we do not (for instance, the statistical distribution of lens type investment levels per each camera).

Roberto

Loren

best

Roberto

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