Cross platform equivalency

Started Apr 25, 2014 | Discussions thread
Rick Knepper
OP Rick Knepper Forum Pro • Posts: 16,347
Re: Cross platform equivalency

qianp2k wrote:

Keith Z Leonard wrote:

If you have read any of the several thousand crop vs 35mm arguments over the years it's all the same stuff applied to MF vs 35mm. I have been pointing out for years that this is the case, that for some reason people have decided that 35mm is the "perfect" balance of price/performance, which really means they can afford 35mm. If money is not an object and there exists something better, well, you see where I'm going with this.

Yes similar comparison but in higher diminishing return. 645Z is 0.78x crop that makes 35mm FF sensor roughly 1.3x crop to this MF sensor (which itself a crop MF sensor compared to bigger CCD MF sensor in PhaseOne IQ280 and Mamiya 645DF).

This is a fair point.

According to DPR, the Mamiya/Phase One 645DF+ body alone was $6,000 at release. The back: $42,000 on eBay. FF 645 (6 cm x 4.5 cm = 60mm x 45mm) vs. the Pentax crop (43.8 x 32.8 mm).

You only see noticeable difference when you print/view in very big size. Bear mind mind that it seems true Sony 54mp sensor and a high pixel Canon sensor are coming.

For detail, someone coming from 22 MP may be more wowed than someone coming from 36 MP.

The issue has been that crop and 35mm really have been the sweet spot in terms of selling cameras to people, so they have enjoyed the most focus on tech advancement. With all of the talk about DSLR saturation you might start to see more MF cameras like the Pentax who target working pros who can afford then and are seeking something to differentiate themselves from the mom/dad with a camera crowd.

That's the point that FF cameras are sweet spot, mature enough with most features, and affordable enough in these days, more and most versatile lens choice. Also much lighter and smaller and lots cheaper. Nevertheless this 645Z makes a MF relative affordable to some Pros and enthusiasts who pursuing the best IQ on still relative affordable price.

Anyway, to the crop stuff. 1.27 or so crop factor means that we are comparing a difference pretty close to the difference between 35mm and APS-H. If the sensors are of the same tech generation you will get better images from the 51mp MF sensor, all other things being equal. You will get thinner depth of field from the MF as well, which seems to be a key argument among the anti-crop movement.

As said in higher diminishing return. DOF is not really an issue on equivalent DOF. FF f2.8 is eq to 645Z's f3.5.

Since you posted those samples below, what say you now regarding diminishing return?

The real question comes down to whether or not you need it. The d800's 36mp is interesting, I personally don't need it for what I want to do. I usually don't need 20mp either, if I'm being honest. All of these arguments about getting the best hardware often makes a pretty insignificant difference to your average photo, it's more about the outlying images that make people go ooo and aaaa.

Someone needs it but I am sure less need 645 than FF especially when Sony and Canon if released 50mp FF cameras in later this year. Not sure how good of DR in this 51mp Sony MF sensor, still 14-stop or 16-stop?

Summation, the Pentax images SHOULD be better than a Canon 35mm with the same pixel count, due to larger surface area, all things being equal. Does that justify the cost difference that we'll likely see? Hard to say as the Canon camera doesn't exist. Are there other features of the Canon that make it a better fit for your uses?? Again, hard to say.

More meaningful if this 51mp MF sensor compares to forthcoming 54mp FF sensor from Sony (if the rumor is true that at least as good as current 36mp sensor in other aspects) or on Canon 40+ mp sensor (we have no idea how good of Canon sensor). I suspect unless you use best of best MF prime lenses and print/view in extreme big size, the difference is not that big. I have no ideas of MF lenses (except they are very expensive), are some of them as good as Otus 55/1.4, FE 55/1.8, Sigma 50/1.4 A and Sigma 35/1.4 A respectively?

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Rick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Various RAW comparisons at Link below. Includes 5D3 vs D800E (new uploads), 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc.

 Rick Knepper's gear list:Rick Knepper's gear list
Pentax 645Z Canon EOS 5DS R Fujifilm GFX 50S Pentax smc D FA 645 55mm F2.8 AL (IF) SDM AW Pentax DA645 28-45mm F4.5 +8 more
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