I can't believe Pentax still has a Mirror Flop Issue..

DAVID MANZE · Apr 9, 2014

MightyMike said:
Mike wrote,

MightyMike said:
Not only that but if just 1 in 10000 fail or fewer then is it really worth addressing? No point in no point in spending large amounts of money creating a fix to such an obscure issue when it can be dealt with on a per case basis. Its not like lives are at risk such as the case with GM and the ignition switch.

Mike from Canada

-- 1 in 10,000? if only, Pentax have certainly not sold 70,000 K3s.

Yes, it "is" serious, every new post of the issue brings in a host of complainers.

This is what Fuji fans are happy about, Fuji listen and respond, Pentax turn a deaf ear!

Dave's clichés

Model Mike · Apr 9, 2014

Zvonimir Tosic said:
As far as Pentax Forums members may account for, perhaps one user in 10,000 may experience the mirror flop issue.

It's not the numbers, it's drip drip of negative perception. Ask Toyota and GM.

The situation is made worse by the necessary complexity of 'traditional' DSLRs. I suspect that anyone who saw the shockingly simple tear down of the Sony A7 on LensRentals will know where the future lies.

emem · Apr 9, 2014

Tom Lusk said:
Yikes! There are over 70 cases listed there. :-O

The "user error" or "happens to Canons/Nikons too" crowd will be hard pressed to explain this volume away. :-D

And my name doesn't appear on the list because I don't frequent PentaxForums, yet I've experienced the issue with my K-3. How many more I wonder?

--
Mike McEnaney. (emem)
www.veritasmea.com

DAVID MANZE · Apr 9, 2014

DAVID MANZE said:
DAVID MANZE said:

Mike wrote,

Not only that but if just 1 in 10000 fail or fewer then is it really worth addressing? No point in no point in spending large amounts of money creating a fix to such an obscure issue when it can be dealt with on a per case basis. Its not like lives are at risk such as the case with GM and the ignition switch.

Mike from Canada

Click to expand...

-- 1 in 10,000? if only, Pentax have certainly not sold 70,000 K3s.

Yes, it "is" serious, every new post of the issue brings in a host of complainers.

This is what Fuji fans are happy about, Fuji listen and respond, Pentax turn a deaf ear!

Dave's clichés

-- Even my own maths is wrong, that's 700,000 K3s sold.

I do not see why anybody is defending this issue. Pentax, get it fixed is what we should be saying!

Dave's clichés

emem · Apr 9, 2014

MightyMike said:
Joseph Tainter said:

MightyMike said:

Really just 70 names out of how many hundreds of thousands of DSLRs?

Pentax recently reached a milestone of 20 million SLR/DSLRs sold, that is 10 million since 1981, I'd hazard a guess that a few million of them were sold in the digital era and we're at 70 known failures

Click to expand...

Mike, there are of course an unknown number of cameras that will have the problem if their owners ever use their cameras in the manner that sets off the flopping mirror. That is many more than 70. Most owners will never discover that they have the fault. And among those who have discovered the problem, many will not be frequenters of either this forum or Pentax Forums.

Joe

Click to expand...

Yes i get it common sense is not allowed in forum discussions about way over blown issues. Its just easier to assume that the problem will be the death of Pentax then to realize its so petty it really isn't even on the radar at Pentax. BTW I was under the impression that there wasn't a special set of settings the camera needed to be in to cause this problem.

Don't know about the death of Pentax Mike, but it's hardly petty and Jim's (OP) comments are still valid. And as Joseph says above, many who experience this fault will not frequent camera fora. I think if over 70 have reported this problem on Pentax Forums (and my name isn't on the list because I don't frequent that forum) out of the - what? - hundreds of people who post there? Maybe several thousand? I think it would be fairly safe to extrapolate from those numbers that maybe 5% or more of owners have experienced it? At least 50 or 60 per thousand? As well as that, the K-3 is relatively young - barely 6 months old. It would be a rare fault that improves with the age of the camera.

emem · Apr 9, 2014

Zvonimir Tosic said:
Science offers consolation, solidarity and uplift. It puts things in perspective, or, in relative measure. Only like that we can assess them and evaluate.

When we put things into perspective, understand the probability behind occurrence, the associated risk with the occurrence and individual consequences, then the “mirror-flap issue” is not different from any other low probability occurrence in the world around us.

It is more than acceptable risk to take, as the consequences of the risk are negligible and easily fixed on individual basis.

In online forums, however, many matters are taken absolutely, or, outside any perspective and relativity, the actions of people are more often than necessary totally unscientific, defamatory, sensationalistic and attention grabbing.

This thread is not much different as it offered no perspective from the beginning.

I have absolutely no idea where you get your figures from Zvonimir other that to think it's wishful thinking on your part. Here's my take on it, pasted from my post above because I think MY numbers are worth repeating. "I think if over 70 have reported this problem on Pentax Forums (and my name isn't on the list because I don't frequent that forum) out of the - what? - hundreds of people who post there? Maybe several thousand? I think it would be fairly safe to extrapolate from those numbers that maybe 5% or more of owners have experienced it? At least 50 or 60 per thousand? (and certainly MANY MORE than the ridiculous 1 per 10,000 that you claim. As well as that, the K-3 is relatively young - barely 6 months old. It would be a rare fault that improves with the age of the camera.".

Zvonimir Tosic said:
britcam said:

You can quote statistics, but the point of all this is surely that never mind the number of instances of reported mirror flop, its simply makes bad press for Pentax, especially given the ultra competitive nature of the business they're in. Same applies to SMD failures. And so the mumblings carry on, and the bad press gets a little more engrained ...

Click to expand...

DAVID MANZE · Apr 9, 2014

emem said:
Zvonimir Tosic said:

Science offers consolation, solidarity and uplift. It puts things in perspective, or, in relative measure. Only like that we can assess them and evaluate.

When we put things into perspective, understand the probability behind occurrence, the associated risk with the occurrence and individual consequences, then the “mirror-flap issue” is not different from any other low probability occurrence in the world around us.

It is more than acceptable risk to take, as the consequences of the risk are negligible and easily fixed on individual basis.

In online forums, however, many matters are taken absolutely, or, outside any perspective and relativity, the actions of people are more often than necessary totally unscientific, defamatory, sensationalistic and attention grabbing.

This thread is not much different as it offered no perspective from the beginning.

Click to expand...

I have absolutely no idea where you get your figures from Zvonimir other that to think it's wishful thinking on your part. Here's my take on it, pasted from my post above because I think MY numbers are worth repeating. "I think if over 70 have reported this problem on Pentax Forums (and my name isn't on the list because I don't frequent that forum) out of the - what? - hundreds of people who post there? Maybe several thousand? I think it would be fairly safe to extrapolate from those numbers that maybe 5% or more of owners have experienced it? At least 50 or 60 per thousand? (and certainly MANY MORE than the ridiculous 1 per 10,000 that you claim. As well as that, the K-3 is relatively young - barely 6 months old. It would be a rare fault that improves with the age of the camera.".

emem said:

britcam said:

You can quote statistics, but the point of all this is surely that never mind the number of instances of reported mirror flop, its simply makes bad press for Pentax, especially given the ultra competitive nature of the business they're in. Same applies to SMD failures. And so the mumblings carry on, and the bad press gets a little more engrained ...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

DAVID MANZE · Apr 9, 2014

DAVID MANZE said:
emem said:

Zvonimir Tosic said:

Science offers consolation, solidarity and uplift. It puts things in perspective, or, in relative measure. Only like that we can assess them and evaluate.

When we put things into perspective, understand the probability behind occurrence, the associated risk with the occurrence and individual consequences, then the “mirror-flap issue” is not different from any other low probability occurrence in the world around us.

It is more than acceptable risk to take, as the consequences of the risk are negligible and easily fixed on individual basis.

In online forums, however, many matters are taken absolutely, or, outside any perspective and relativity, the actions of people are more often than necessary totally unscientific, defamatory, sensationalistic and attention grabbing.

This thread is not much different as it offered no perspective from the beginning.

Click to expand...

I have absolutely no idea where you get your figures from Zvonimir other that to think it's wishful thinking on your part. Here's my take on it, pasted from my post above because I think MY numbers are worth repeating. "I think if over 70 have reported this problem on Pentax Forums (and my name isn't on the list because I don't frequent that forum) out of the - what? - hundreds of people who post there? Maybe several thousand? I think it would be fairly safe to extrapolate from those numbers that maybe 5% or more of owners have experienced it? At least 50 or 60 per thousand? (and certainly MANY MORE than the ridiculous 1 per 10,000 that you claim. As well as that, the K-3 is relatively young - barely 6 months old. It would be a rare fault that improves with the age of the camera.".

DAVID MANZE said:

britcam said:

You can quote statistics, but the point of all this is surely that never mind the number of instances of reported mirror flop, its simply makes bad press for Pentax, especially given the ultra competitive nature of the business they're in. Same applies to SMD failures. And so the mumblings carry on, and the bad press gets a little more engrained ...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

2PK · Apr 9, 2014

Unlike your ranting when you don't even own the camera.

Too many people mouth off negatively about things they have never experienced, purchased, used, owned and create this ridiculous hysteria that does nothing to improve the product but does a great deal of damage to the brand and in the majority of cases unjustifiably.

jhmos · Apr 9, 2014

No, it's 70 out of all the K-3 owners on Pentax Forums who have actually responded. Also note, there is a thread there for K-3 owners who have NOT seen the fault. The fault seen list is bigger.

DRabbit · Apr 9, 2014

emem said:
Tom Lusk said:

Yikes! There are over 70 cases listed there. :-O

The "user error" or "happens to Canons/Nikons too" crowd will be hard pressed to explain this volume away. :-D

Click to expand...

And my name doesn't appear on the list because I don't frequent PentaxForums, yet I've experienced the issue with my K-3. How many more I wonder?

DRabbit · Apr 9, 2014

jhmos said:
No, it's 70 out of all the K-3 owners on Pentax Forums who have actually responded. Also note, there is a thread there for K-3 owners who have NOT seen the fault. The fault seen list is bigger.

A good point. It's only people who have experienced it who are also members of that forum, AND have bought a K3, had the problem and have been on those forums within the last month.

The thread is a month old. In a month, 71 people have reported the issue there.

Meanwhile, on Amazon.com, a site frequented by a whole lot more people, since the camera's release (6 months?), it has received just 44 reviews. Compare that to a camera like the D600 which has over 400 reviews.

Indeed, I think 70 is actually a pretty large number in context.

And I concur with Jim. In all my shooting, I've had zero issues with the K5-II and K5-IIs. I can't say so for sure, but I'd venture a pretty strong guess that the K5-II/s is unaffected by this issue, and hence, is a much more reliable camera.

Amy

DRabbit · Apr 9, 2014

Zvonimir Tosic said:
As far as Pentax Forums members may account for, perhaps one user in 10,000 may experience the mirror flop issue. Because it is so rare, in networked world it is reported online and given more attention to it as users are bedazzled with an unusual behaviour of their camera.
That camera can be repaired, or, in "worst" cases, exchanged for a new and sent back to the customer. Warranty accounts for it. Warranty was designed exactly for it and for all other similar very-low-probability-to-happen issues. All can be settled and no bigger pain inflicted than that of a bedazzlement and wonder.

If it's so rare, what do you think the chances are that you exchange the K3 body for another, and still run into the issue? Venture a guess at that statistic. It should be like getting hit by lightning if the issue is a rare one.

However, that's what happened to me. Exchanged first K3 for another and had the issue basically out of the box. And, it wasn't a crazy fluke. On that list, we have two other people who've exchanged their K3 for a new body and still ran into the issue. One of those guys is on his third K3, and that one has had the issue too.

So it's not as rare as you think. What appears to be the case is that people who use their camera more regularly (who are generally putting more shutter actuations on it), run into the issue more often, simply because of the law of averages.

Amy

--
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
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Kerusker · Apr 9, 2014

Zvonimir,

if you apply your logic to yourself - then we should not care about you?

What's the probability of your existence or any other human being?

How many generations have mixed their genes up to your parents?

Don't be afraid.

Although you are an extremely seldom event, we take you seriously! (don't we?)

:-D

waxwaine · Apr 9, 2014

Or just an ecco?

I didn´t see dozens of K-3 users claiming for an issue, but just one posting every 3 hours about her experience with 2 faulty cameras from the same vendor. Maybe 2 more claim for something similar.

My K-r suffer for the flop issue, and thats why I happily update to K-5II. no problem at the moment.

Machinnes fails, anyone, believe it.

DRabbit · Apr 9, 2014

waxwaine said:
Or just an ecco?

I didn´t see dozens of K-3 users claiming for an issue, but just one posting every 3 hours about her experience with 2 faulty cameras from the same vendor. Maybe 2 more claim for something similar.

My K-r suffer for the flop issue, and thats why I happily update to K-5II. no problem at the moment.

Machinnes fails, anyone, believe it.

Make that every 2 hours.

K3 Crazy Mirror Sickness (Mirror Flapping Lockup) - Report Yours Here! - PentaxForums.com

Let's start a list so we can get a sense of how many people are having the problem, and details that might be helpful. Here's the rules: Answer this

www.pentaxforums.com

Open your eyes.

Amy

MightyMike · Apr 9, 2014

emem said:
MightyMike said:

Joseph Tainter said:

MightyMike said:

Really just 70 names out of how many hundreds of thousands of DSLRs?

Pentax recently reached a milestone of 20 million SLR/DSLRs sold, that is 10 million since 1981, I'd hazard a guess that a few million of them were sold in the digital era and we're at 70 known failures

Click to expand...

Mike, there are of course an unknown number of cameras that will have the problem if their owners ever use their cameras in the manner that sets off the flopping mirror. That is many more than 70. Most owners will never discover that they have the fault. And among those who have discovered the problem, many will not be frequenters of either this forum or Pentax Forums.

Joe

Click to expand...

Yes i get it common sense is not allowed in forum discussions about way over blown issues. Its just easier to assume that the problem will be the death of Pentax then to realize its so petty it really isn't even on the radar at Pentax. BTW I was under the impression that there wasn't a special set of settings the camera needed to be in to cause this problem.

Click to expand...

Don't know about the death of Pentax Mike, but it's hardly petty and Jim's (OP) comments are still valid. And as Joseph says above, many who experience this fault will not frequent camera fora. I think if over 70 have reported this problem on Pentax Forums (and my name isn't on the list because I don't frequent that forum) out of the - what? - hundreds of people who post there? Maybe several thousand? I think it would be fairly safe to extrapolate from those numbers that maybe 5% or more of owners have experienced it? At least 50 or 60 per thousand? As well as that, the K-3 is relatively young - barely 6 months old. It would be a rare fault that improves with the age of the camera.

MightyMike · Apr 9, 2014

DAVID MANZE said:
DAVID MANZE said:

DAVID MANZE said:

Mike wrote,

Not only that but if just 1 in 10000 fail or fewer then is it really worth addressing? No point in no point in spending large amounts of money creating a fix to such an obscure issue when it can be dealt with on a per case basis. Its not like lives are at risk such as the case with GM and the ignition switch.

Mike from Canada

Click to expand...

-- 1 in 10,000? if only, Pentax have certainly not sold 70,000 K3s.

Yes, it "is" serious, every new post of the issue brings in a host of complainers.

This is what Fuji fans are happy about, Fuji listen and respond, Pentax turn a deaf ear!

Dave's clichés

Click to expand...

-- Even my own maths is wrong, that's 700,000 K3s sold.

I do not see why anybody is defending this issue. Pentax, get it fixed is what we should be saying!

Dave's clichés

I was under the impression that the list was for all models that might have the issue

Tom Lusk · Apr 9, 2014

You're probably wasting your time trying to reason with such posters, Amy.

3 or 71 apparently are the same thing to at least one person here.

I'm expecting someone will next say that Pentax has sold 71 million K3's and the 71 faulty copies represent just a 1% failure rate. Whereas, it's more likely that fewer than 700 have been sold to Pentax Forum and DPR users, and the problem has affected 10% or more K3 users.

We've already seen the " Shhhh! Revealing problems with Pentax gear will accomplish nothing, but could hurt sales. Better to just keep quiet and live with the problems than risk that!" :-O

2PK · Apr 9, 2014

Did you format your SD cards before trying them in the replacement K-3?

Did you try a smaller SD card? Most of the posts I've seen have been 16Gb, 32Gb and 64Gb cards.

Never had an issue with my K-5 and thus far not had a problem with my K-3 but only have 8Gb cards.

I can't believe Pentax still has a Mirror Flop Issue..

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