My dream full-frame camera.

Started Apr 3, 2014 | Discussions thread
Rservello Senior Member • Posts: 1,157
Re: More misty eyed views of the past

robin t wrote:

darklamp wrote:

No, the physics of the reflex changed. I'll speak up for you: THE LIGHT GETS SPLIT OFF TO THE AF SENSORS. Yes, that little half-mirror thing. Less light through the prism means the viewfinders aren't just less bright, but also have a smaller size to allow for the loss.

If you can detect this small difference I would have to regard you as having exceptional abilities or, more likely, your confirmation bias is kicking in and you're seeing what you want to see.

It's clear that no matter what anyone says you're going to cling to your silliness, but you and the other Luddites can cling together and without a camera, because no-one is going to make what you want.

I've said this before - if you lot think this is economically viable then build it and try selling it. You'll loose your shirt and you won;t have to worry about buying any cameras.

At the risk of offending your Luddite heart, get a MILC. No light loss and the viewfinders are bright and clear. Magnified views and focus peaking to aid focus on many models.

Or get one of the many viewfinder like attachments that fit over the LCD - Nice big viewfinders as bright as the screen ( brighter, in fact as it's projected over a smaller area ).

I'm sure you'll reject all of these as somehow or other inferior to a "proper" viewfinder, but it's something that works for an awful o lot of people who apparently lack your high standards or something.

Twentieth century - dead. Move on.

Darklamp you are ridiculous. There is a huge difference. OP here, and I am actively seeking ways to figure out how to take my photography into the 21st century. Part of that was borrowing my friends D600 for the evening last night. I brought my F2 and three AI lenses. We played with the lenses on the D600 for a few hours. My friend, who does weddings, etc, loved the 50mm 1.4, but we both agreed it was almost unfocussable in dim light. The difference with the F2's viewfinder was HUGE. It's not a 'small difference', it's not 'confirmation bias', it is simply that there is about half the light coming through the D600's OVF. On top of that the focus circle makes an even bigger difference. If you need numbers for your technocratic heart, I'd estimate it's 150% easier focussing the F2.

Granted, daylight would be different, but the point is that the OVF on that super fancy high tech camera is not built for focussing.

This is just another situation where the technology is not just offering an extra functionality, it is taking away from the original functionality, which is what we enjoyed about photography.

For my part, I have no hankerings for the past, and no problems with technology in general. I'm just a geek who knows what I like and isn't willing to accept that all this technology can't provide it eventually. And I do think that technology can provide it, as all these mechanisms and chips and motors, etc will continue to get smaller to the point that they can make a full frame camera look like an F2 or a fish or a hotdog or whatever the hell they want. And I hope at that point, they know that some people don't want all their bulls**t extras, and would like to focus manually. That's why we're writing about it here, and I think it's coming a lot sooner than y'all wanna believe.

And if it don't come from Nikon or Cannon, it'll come from somewhere else, when all your precious technology coughs up an open source, 3D printed, individually tailored digital F2, cause all that technology is changing so fast and becoming so much cheaper that custom, short factory runs are going to be far more the norm in 'the future'.

Finally, I'd say that if you fancy yourself a technology forecaster, you're doing a pretty bad job. If you'd open you're eyes and look around you'd see your precious 21st century awash with inefficient, low-tech products coming back because people like them. Vinyl records, I'd imagine, just make your skin crawl, huh? Those dumb luddites! What about tube amps? Heavy, soft-sounding and super expensive! But they're back! And even cameras like the XT-1 and the Alpha 7 point to people wanting and paying for a camera that feels like a good, ol-time manual SLR.

Your problem is you are applying 20th century production economics to 21st century consumer ideals. You're all humped up on Fordanomics and 'production lines' that you're missing the kickstarter-decentralized-consumer-and-ideas-driven production modes of the 21st century. So take off your soot-coloured glasses and walk through that door. I'll be there to take a wide-open, manually focussed shot of your shocked mug with my digital F2.

Who's the luddite now?

Firstly, let me say. Everything you said is spot on. Here's a tiny solution that has helped me. Don't shoot modern nikkor lenses. They have tiny rear elements that make then dark, and their manual throw is horrible, coupled with rigid focus rings and no aperture rings. They are pretty useless. Colors are pretty muddy too.

My voigtländer 58mm f/1.4 has been a revalation!!  The rear element is slightly bigger, allowing more light in with a smaller, clearer lens. It's all manual, so lots of thought was put into the focus ring, it's smooth and wide. Colors are so vibrant and beautiful, with a soft and clean falloff. And f/1.4 has a beautiful glow, that all the nikkor fast primes are missing.

I think, just like all technology, as things get more advanced, they will also get simpler. And in the case of photography, that means going back to old ways without hundreds of computer features (Seriously, do I need a fake tilt focus filter in camera???  I can just remove the lens and actually tilt the focal plane!!).

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* Sensitive Internet User Disclaimer: All opinions are my own and are not meant to offend you or damage your precious beliefs.

 Rservello's gear list:Rservello's gear list
Panasonic LX100 Nikon D600 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Voigtlander 58mm F1.4 Nokton SL II Rokinon 85mm F1.4 +4 more
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