New Olympus 17mm 1.8

Started Mar 7, 2014 | Discussions thread
Jolly Oly Contributing Member • Posts: 978
Re: New Olympus 17mm 1.8

Anders W wrote:

Jolly Oly wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Noone is saying that the lens can't take decent images but user reports like this doesn't tell us how it compares to the alternatives.

and when they do, you choose to ignore them.

What user report showing good and directly comparable evidence from the two lenses did I ignore?

Like in this case here with Pixnat2 and many other users, mostly enthusiast photographers who know what they're doing, who had both 20/1.7 and 17/1.8

Could you please link me to the evidence from the systematic tests performed by Pixnat2.

What I actually got is a one of the sharpest lenses in my collection - ever. I never had an eqiv. 35mm prime on digitalSLR but this lens is by far sharper than all of my previous zooms - 12-60mm and 14-54mm Zuikos included - already at f/1.8.. The rest of the alleged lens faults were in fact equally minor.

As you might be aware, a number of fairly well reputed test sites have shown it to be less sharp than the 12-35/2.8 as well as the 12-40/2.8 at the same FL (or thereabout).

and I'm sure SHG 14-35mm/f2 Zuiko is sharper from all of them, so what ?

It's normally expected that a prime does at least as well as a zoom, even a good zoom.

You mean at least like 20/1.7 is doing against 12-35mm and 12-40mm zooms ?

Judging by the same (your) standards the 20/1.7 sucks in that regard. Or not ?

look at the size and price difference. m.zuiko 17/1.8 is like a glass compared to a bottle against 12-40mm, it was $400 when I bought it (compared to a $1000) and is f1.8. My sample is tack sharp already at 1.8.

What we are talking about is how it compares to the 20. Got any evidence you'd like to show me in that regard?

Again you choose to ignore that it was you who pulled a comparison with micro zooms. But never mind.

By your standards this is very unscientific and shallow I guess.

So what about lenstip credibility (in my eyes went down completely)

Lenstip is just one of several sources showing the same evidence.

based on, obviously, not a representative copy of the lens. That's ok, but it would be fair from such a sites to do little research and to at least mention a possibility of sample variations.

What I pointed out is that Lenstip is not at all alone. The story is pretty much the same regardless of where you look.

You mean whereever you look. Plenty of proof of the opposite, in my case - my personal images included.

All of that (sample variations) is based on assumption that "good" lens sample is not accidentally good but designed that way and "bad" lens sample is accidentally bad - not designed to underperform. So if we have two different copies of the same lens I believe that good copy is the reference, not a bad copy.

And there are, of course, other sources with different conclusions (than lenstip).

What sources reach a significantly different conclusion than Lenstip when it comes to how the lens compares to the 20 in terms of sharpness?

or what did I learned from that ? Something more about sample variations I guess (mine is black like many 17/1.8 with stellar reports) and one more thing: for sure I will never try to unconditionally support someone's view of something I never had a chance to use (like you're doing now).

How do we know that the alternatives you tested it against aren't worse than copies tested by others? Unlike you, I don't fall into the trap of thinking that my own copies, test procedures, and perceptions are all infallible and those of anyone else just crap.

How do you know that radioactivity and its effects are for real? Ever tested that yourself? Do you still believe it? If so why?

good point from your side and an easy answer for me: I trust myself.

So you tested that radioactivity is for real on yourself?

With every lens I got I run a few test shots in various conditions, like a starting point just to see what to expect. Then the real life usage will further show and fine tune my opinion. Using the database of my lens collection (in my brain and lightroom archive) with sufficiently large sample size (20-30 lenses) it's easy to rank the specific lens performance. After all, it's not a rocket science.

That sounds like a very unreliable and unsystematic way of going about it. No wonder you end up with strange conclusions.

Sounds like ? How could you systematically measure sound out of pixels ? Or what is your reliable method to systematically define a beautiful image ? No wonder you end up with strange conclusions.

So Acrill is right. I mean you have never used it, right?

No I haven't. But for reasons already spelled out, that does not prevent me from passing verdict on it. There's plenty of relevant evidence out there.

Your "problem" is that you like to ignore the relevant evidence which doesn't fit with your story.

What directly comparable evidence did I ignore?

As I'm aware the majority of users who had both Panasonic 20/1.7 and Olympus 17/1.8 kept the Olympus. If for you this is not relevant evidence that something is wrong with Lenstip alike reviews, so be it.

Here are three reasons why arguments of that kind don't work. First, neither you nor I know how many of those who had both did what.

In other words real user perspective, even in significant numbers, is completely useless if it goes against big review site and/or your opinion.

Second, those who had the 20 and ordered the 17 were more attracted to the 17 in the first place than those who had the 20 and didn't order the 17.

Judging by your standards, again ? Just for the sake of the argument I could easily say everybody were attracted to the 17 but only some had extra money/needs/curiosity to play with both and bite the bullet. Except you, of course.

Third, why do you think most people once thought that the earth is flat?

Most but not Galileo. He choose to look at the Moon and the horizon and trust his eyes against all the major review sites of that time who claimed the opposite.

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