Definition of bokeh, simply gibberish?

Started Mar 6, 2014 | Discussions thread
tko Forum Pro • Posts: 12,432
how would you measure blur?

Do you know what blur is? How would you measure it? What tests? Giving a photo, could you analyze the background blur?

So, assuming the answer is no, blur is controversally term that doesn't mean anything because we can't measure it.

guitarjeff wrote:

tko wrote:

So, do we go around throwing out every word in the dictionary that isn't defined by measurable parameters?

Why would you do that?

Happy? Pretty? Sad, beautiful, sexy, good, evil, right, wrong, fun, art. A great photo, an artistic photo, a pretty photo.

Nothing wrong at all with the dictionary explaining terms which are subjective. If I feel a certain way but don't know what to call it, one of these explanations might help me understand a word that might better describe it. All words in the dictionary need not define ACTUAL things or phenomenon.

None of these are measurable, yet we all pretty much know what they mean, and use them everyday with no controversy.

Yep, no need for controversy.

Bokeh is very well defined.

Yep, and the only rational definition is "blur in a photo due to a dof that doesn't encompass the entire frame." Saying it is THE QUALITY of blur is meaningless nonsense.

Not only it how out of focus the background is, but it is how smooth and pleasing the transitions are.

You mean how smooth the BLUR is. Whether it's pleasing or not is completely subjective.

So, the quality of the composition, the quality of the exposure, the quality of the color balance, are all meaningless terms since quality hasn't been defined? After all, composition is all subjective.

I'm sure if someone was bored enough they could come up w/a way of measuring the blur quality.

Really? I would love to see that.

Smoothness, roundness, fall off versus distance, error from an ideal, radially symmetrical Gaussian drop off from a point source. Easy peasy.

Can you even define blur? Most people can't, even though they intuitively know what it means. How would YOU measure blur?

I could measure blur, and I could measure blur quality. It really isn't that hard, and anyone can see the difference with their eyes. Both a equally easy to measure.

I'm always amazed when newbies step and try to redesign words that have been in common use for years.

Newbie? I have been a member of dpr for a couple years or more. I redefined nothing, I gave a completely logical explanation of why it is silly gibberish to say that bokeh IS THE QUALITY of the blur. Quality is not a THING in the real world. It is either a decription of real aspects, or it can be used in a completely subjective way that can't be defined for everyone to agree with.

I assume you're a musician? Does music always deal with things that can be defined or measured? Vibrator, timbre, voice, passion? Don't they have quality, and aren't some variations better than others, and wouldn't a musician instantly know the type of sound he likes, even though he couldn't figure out how to measure it. Why does one $100,000 violin sound "better" than another? It can't be measured, but it exists, even though sound quality is totally objective, the fact is real. Some instruments have a better sound quality.

A photographer should have some qualities of the artist in his soul. I feel sorry for you if the only concepts that exist in your mind are those that can be measured, weighed, and counted.

Ridiculous, we are talking about whether a definition is rational or not. A concept does not have to be measured to be a concept. The point stands, the defintion going around is not a definition at all. it's meaningless drivel.

When you get enough experience, you'll know what the quality of the blur is. Just like musicians, painters, or filmmakers probably have many terms that are vague to me, but clear in their mind.

A quality is an aspect of something. An aspect or quality of something has definable parameters. Never have accepted the artsy definition thrown around because a definition has to be definite, or it isn't definition.

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