For those who thought the Df flopped...

Started Feb 18, 2014 | Discussions thread
Rich Rosen Senior Member • Posts: 2,496
Re: For those who thought the Df flopped...

Shotcents wrote:


"Cannot" and "will not" can't be lumped into a "cannot afford" statement. Such a statement infers economic inability. "Will not" is a matter of choice. The first can be demeaning or insulting, while the second can be a "badge of honor." I had no intention of commenting in this thread. The OP was reporting a fact, which I had read and wanted to see what others thought about it. But then ravduc made that stupid statement about the AF in the Df. The comment was elicited because he felt the poster was degrading the AF sensor in the Df. All RodiuvanII said was that a "better" AF system was available in the D4, if the curleyone wanted it. Thats a pretty neutral statement. But ravduc took it as an insult to the Df, He proceeded to condemn Rodiuvan as being unable to afford the Df. Where did that come from? And when dread_tai pointed this classless stupidity out borg, ravduc and you jumped on him. He did not make any comment on the camera, either positively or negatively.

Rich, YOU may in fact have the money to buy a Df, but that doesn't disqualify the statement. SOME people here don't. On that I'm sure you agree. As someone correctly pointed out, the Df is a camera many folks want, but the price stops them cold.

But why assume that some people don't rather than won't? It seems that the only reason one would say "can't afford" is to be insulting and to rationalize that there are those who don't see value in the Df.

I got to use the Df twice before buying and I knew (mostly) what it was. What I did not truly expect is that I'd learn the following:

1) The Df sensor is a better all-around sensor for my needs, outperforming my D800 and lessening the workflow by no small extent.

No argument. But you have been saying that again and again. Before you even put your hands on it, you were enthusiastic to the point that was nauseous. But lets get something straight; this thread was not about the camera. It is about the Nikon interview. Now it has become about the camera and those who use it and those who don't.

2) I don't need and have never needed the 51 point AF of the D800/D4. What I do require is that the center point be excellent and the Df and D610 work beautifully in this regard.

Okay. But some do. I love my D600, just as you love the Df. But a lot of what I shoot is action. While the D600 can be used in that manner, it is my D3 with its higher  frame rate and faster focus tracking, that makes it a better tool for what I do. The poster, who said he would have loved a 51 point sensor in the Df; curleyone, probably is one who wants a D700 replacement. He was politely told that it don't exist and then all h--l broke loose on this thread.


3) After the first two weeks I began to prefer the handling and controls of the Df over the D800. This is something you're not qualified to comment on. I've been shooting large format, medium format and digital since the days of owning my own modded versamat. How a person connects with gear is personal and not instantansuous. Yesterday I was shooting land locked boats in the snow. I was working with top dials only with my gloves on and it was easier and more fun than with my D800. Not once did I require my reading glasses to reference an LCD and the light weight of the Df with a prime is wonderful.

Great! And I haven't commented on it in a long time. What I am qualified to do is to decide what tool is best for me, just as you have determined that the Df is best for you. And while I have determined that the Df is currently not for me, I am not going to simply dismiss it out of hand. I intend to make the trek into NYC in the spring and among other things have a long look at the Df.  I know, "you got to use it to get use to it." That doesn't fly with me. I already have had cameras that I have had to get used to. That doesn't work for me. But we'll see.

4) What owners of the Df are reacting to is their inability to post on this forum without harassment. And if you KEEP repeating the same negativity, that's all it is. I'm sorry, but you "bashers" have stated your views and made your points. The OWNERS of the Df are enjoying a camera they find superior. My friend has stopped using his D600 in favor of the Fuji X100. He thinks the Fuji is BETTER. His reasons make sense. If someone prefers the output of the Df and the handling, doesn't THAT makes sense?

I'm sorry again, but the critics are no longer critics. They're simply attacking, trolling and bashing a product they actually have minimal insight into. It DOES come across as envy, jealousy and worse. It looks like the eye-rolling of the guy who spots the fellow in the Porsche. Repeatedly harassing owners under the guise of "Gee, I'm just giving my view for the 100th time is certainly suspect."

And what are you doing? Every time you get a chance, You give your view on the new love of your life.  If you are going to bring up all the great things about the Df, then you leave yourself open to criticism. If you are going to attack those who find fault in the camera,with comments about economic capability, then expect a strong reaction to your comments. This thread wasn't even about the camera. It was about statements made by the executives at Nikon, concerning the sale of the Df.

You say that the Df is one of the most polarizing cameras Nikon has ever made. I think you are right. You say that Df naysayers are ruining positive threads about the camera. Negative comments in this thread didn't attack the camera but did question the validity of what the Nikon executives were saying. Given the track record that Nikon has laid down over the last couple of years, with the D600, and D800; its warranty and customer service policies; wouldn't you question anything that Nikon has to say?

That's a good question and it allows me to make another important point:

1) The Nikon Df is the ONLY FX CAMERA I (and my friend) have owned that is problem free. My D700 required lens tuning on half my lenses. My first D800 has left AF issue. My second could not focus AT ALL and was sent back. My friends have had troubles with the D600 (and one is sending his D610 back with oil spatter again). But we've found that the Df works with no lens tuning, no shutter issues. This thing works like an Apple product! It just works.

2) Until the Df I felt that Nikon could not release a trouble-free product. But everything on the Df feels better quality than my other cameras.

This negativity is not limited to the Df, but is directed at the whole Nikon organization. Other things were said, or weren't said in that interview, by Nikon that didn't sit well with me at all. But that is for another thread. The fact is that this thread titled "for those who thought the Df flopped." gave Nikon skeptics a reason to vent. Perhaps some of the negativity directed at the Df, is because of the problems Nikon has created for itself in the last couple of years. But "you and others like you," take it personally. A little childish, don't you think?

Rich, you're really chimping and choosing here. Df haters have attacked the owners and have aggressively told us that we don't need a lightweight D4 sensor based camera because THEY don't want it, can't pay for it or whatever. I'm about to spend nearly 60K on a muscle car. Is it a value based purchase? Of course not. But I know what I'm doing and know what I want. You can tell me once that it's a bad decision, but if you keep on about it then you're the one with the problem.

All of the negative comments re. "hipsters" and worse sound exactly like jealousy. One of my friends even bought the Df PURLEY on looks. Who are you or I to tell him he's wrong?

I think it's time for the haters to go away. You're wrong. You're not helping anyone. And worse, you're doing little more than bashing fellow enthusiasts. If you're HONESTLY upset about the Df or Nikon, write them a letter like a grownup. Or move to Canon.


Your paranoia is your problem. No one in this thread attacked users of the Df. What they did state is that it can be improved. What they did say is that the Nikon guys were putting a positive spin on Df sales. So what! Suddenly those who don't have the Df or are not in love with it,  can't afford it or hate those who do love it. That is paranoia.  In all the criticism I've read about the Df, not once did I read a personal attack on the Df users. Oh I am sorry, there was some video on youtube with that hipster thing. Amusing, but not really bad. The personal attacks are coming from "you guys," because guys like me have said that the Df is not for us. I have never said it was a bad decision for you. I did say it was a bad decision for me. I did point out that the camera lacked certain features I wanted. And I certainly said that I did not find the performance/value ratio to be up to my standards.

Robert, you personally started these attacks long before the Df was available. You bashed fellow  enthusiasts for commenting negatively on the Df long before you had your hands on it. Your "can't afford it" argument was one of  the first arguments you made about those who were skeptical about the Df. But once you had it in hand, even you admitted that the Df wasn't perfect. For some of us, it is far from perfect. Yes... now it is the best camera you have. Great... for you. But that doesn't give you the right to attach an "agenda" to those who don't share your feelings. That doesn't give you the right to attempt to silence those who have a right to express their feelings on this forum. The fact that I don't own this camera does not disqualify me from expressing my opinion on your personal attacks. The fact that I don't own this camera, does not disqualify me from being skeptical of Nikon. Your assertion that I hate this camera (not true), and that I should move on to Canon, because of my "hate" of the Df, is absurd. Maybe you should grow up and see what is being said here. It is not the DF, nor is it the owners  of the DF, that are being attacked in this thread. What is being commented on,by me, is certain personal attacks launched on those who are skeptical of the camera. You should grow up or go see a shrink for your paranoia.

 Rich Rosen's gear list:Rich Rosen's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D1X Nikon D610 Nikon D500 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR +23 more
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