a6000 faster than OMD E-M1, faster than most DSLR's (if not all). Good job SONY.

Started Feb 12, 2014 | Discussions thread
TrojMacReady Veteran Member • Posts: 8,725
Re: a6000 faster than OMD E-M1, faster than most DSLR's (if not all). Good job SONY.

bluevellet wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Indoors it will probably struggle Donny...this is probably in bright daylight only...

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ALL cameras slow down in low light conditions and a6000 won't be an exception. Popular Photography, for example, posts lab results measuring AF speed under varying light conditions. Their fastest measured AF for mainstream and pro DSLRs is on Sony a77 with 0.24s (a99 is next at 0.27s) at 12EV which goes down to 0.98s (IIRC) at 0 EV.

That being said, there are two videos available (one posted above by Henry and another is a review by DanK) which demonstrate that the a6000 manages to maintain good speed indoors as well (note the garage shot in DanK review).

Dank Reviews didn't shoot anything in a garage, they panned the camera to show how the focus points reacted to different objects but nothing was shot. Not only can't you hear the shutter, the LCD would go jerky if actually shooting continuously.

The only continuous shooting shown was a parrot in daylight (looks overcast) and the same parrot in a bright, white corner. The latter clearly shows the liveview screen and how it is not really dark with the camera settings (base ISO, realtively high shutter speeds).

It is meant to demonstrate how quickly the AF-C does its job and points it selects. No need to be bitter about it. I wish more reviews were like that.

That's not the same.

I have old cameras which can also "follow" a subject with neat cursors and squares (depends on the manufacturers). Reality of actually shooting the same subject in focus is different.

Ability to set focus and follow it that quickly is key to tracking. The only issue that goes past is shutter lag. Fortunately, that has been a strength of NEX bodies since 5N. They have considerably lower shutter lag than pro DSLRs much less mid level and older ones. Even if a6000 only matches NEX-5N (and all NEX bodies since), you are looking at 0.022s (measured) which is better than any DSLR.

Except there's nothing quick about slowly panning your camera left to right (the garage). It might be easier to illustate the tracking in a video but you didn't prove what you're saying it does.

You shouldn't be looking at panning speed, rather how AF system responds to the change with panning. Would you claim that this is how how NEX-5R/T and 6 respond?

I never owned a NEX body that recent, I can't confirm or deny that particular point in all honesty, but I do know how other cameras react, even old ones, and slowly panning and having the tracking focus follow is not a hard feat.

It has been with mirrorless cameras. And since you don't have any experience with APSc mirroess cameras, may be you should refrain from drawing conclusions.

But as I said, if DSLRs perform similarly, a6000 is likely to have an edge under these conditiobns due to lower shutter lag.

Wrong. I owned the original NEX5, but you mentionned more recent NEX bodies.

But that's irrelevant because you don't need PDAF to focus track subbjects and other mirrorless brands have done it for years. My point here is double. They've been able to do it and it looks like they're following a subject, but when it comes time to take the shots, it's hit or miss. It's not shutter lag that is to blame but the camera actually having to focus for each shot (very lens-dependent too). Tracking is just the camera telling you it knows the subject has moved, focus doesn't need to be acquired for it to continually follow.

What do you think the camera is doing? Showing you Christmas lights?

In general or the A6000?

In both cases, especially if you read the Sony fine print with no pre-focusing for their tests, it tells you it knows where the subject is so you don't need to tell camera what to focus on. In the case of the A6000, this is more critical because you can not quickly tell it what to focus on (no touch screen) and more generally can't always chance it on the first AF acquisition to be right (so it won't focus track on the wrong subject).

How is no pre focus enabling the camera's ability to phase detect in that garage from near to far?

Another issue.

The no pre-focusing is for actually measuring how fast the camera AFes from the moment you half press the shutter button to the moment when the camera acquires focus, that's where the 0,06 number comes from and how it can be compared to other cameras (at least superficially).

PDAF should help a mirrorless camera, in theory at least, to better judge distances, but it's not critical for any sort of tracking hence why many mirrorless cameras had subject tracking before on-sensor PDAF.

For targets changing direction and speed, it is critical, since CDAF also has a lot more trouble figuring out direction, due to the lack of distance measurement. And predictive algorithms work a lot better when they can determine speed to know how far to change the AF point. Without distance measurements, that's a lot more arbitrary.

All CDAF tracking systems that were available before PDAF on sensor entered the equation, were next to useless. The first to really try was the GH2, which defaulted to small apertures for tracking to increase DOF (which is already larger with µ4/3) and still did a bad job in general. Next up to up the ante was the OMD-EM5, which was introduced after the first on sensor PDAF systems saw daylight and again, it's not nearly as good as dedicated PDAF systems in the same price class, despite the larger DOF.

Most of the first on sensor PDAF systems had their own set of problems too, mostly related to limited sensor read out speed and processing speed. The exception being the Nikon 1 system.

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