Size comparison of FE 4/2470 on A7 vs Olympus 12-40 f2.8 on GX7

Started Feb 6, 2014 | Discussions thread
blue_skies Forum Pro • Posts: 11,473
Re: really?

technic wrote:

Yes ... I'm currently considering a FF DSLR with bright tele/macro primes for my dragonfly photography and other nature stuff, a Ricoh GR or something similar for 'walkaround' and/or an m43 system for more general photography (but not for the dragonflies due to lack of suitable lenses and EVF issues).

I think the Sony A7 cameras are a step in the right direction, and comparing them with m43 size/weight is interesting. For lenses longer than a standard zoom it will be very difficult to compete with m43 on size/weight though, below that they should do fine when the lens range keeps expanding. For me (and I guess for many others) A7(r) currently has too many limitations and flaws, especially regarding native lenses, to consider them as a primary camera system.

I get it, it is "made by Sony"

Maybe in a few years the Sony A7 series bodies will be as refined as Olympus EM1 now, and there will be a decent set of native lenses to chose from. However, my experience with Sony over many years is that while they make brilliant one-off designs (like DSC-F and RX series) they severely lack commitment to the existing user base.

Link please?

Sony, who is under attack by investors and is being forced to split up/break off entire divisions still manages to:

  • save Olympus (financially) from going under
  • enable leading sensor technology to it partners (including Olympus)
  • innovate, innvovate, innovate
  • (You mention DSC-F and RX series, what about Nex, PDAF, A7, their lens line up (YES), QX, BSI sensors (P&S/smartphone), and so on)
  • Sony service and support is actually quite good

And you conveniently ignore that m43 'competitiveness' was entirely made possible by Sony innovation. If Sony had not start building the new sensors, would m43 even be alive today? Forget the financial troubles that Oly created, how about ANY comparison with m43 products at all?

Olympus EM1 is refined now? And Sony lacks commitment? What kind of argument is this?

The EM1 is often called a 'brick', for it is large and heavy. Built-like-a-brick sounds positive, but it is a very expensive product for a substandard sensor. Despite all the hype, using the m43 "new Sony" sensor between ISO 100 to ISO 1000 is like using the A7 "aging" FF sensor between ISO 400 to ISO 40000.

Start comparing the EM1 against A7 at ISO 400 and up. Heck, compare at ISO 3200 and shoot some side by side shots at same aperture?

Sure, EM1 has fast AF (thanks to Sony's PDAF technology ) but it comes with deep DOF. Maybe ok for m43 users, but the DOF is often deeper than needs be. It has too, it comes with the sensor's small size. Anyone who lauds the EM1 focusing has never used a proper DSLR - for the difference is still quite notable. In fact, EM1 and A7 are closer in focusing accuracy and speed than EM1 and a proper DSLR.

My question remains - what are m43 users so afraid of? Dividing the market by sensor size makes a lot of sense, yet m43 users seem to want to dominate all markets. Hint: they can't. Despite all the arguments back and forth, including non-product arguments like above, anyone shooting side-by-side will notice the difference. And hint2: a smaller camera is easier to use - every tried the RX100, or why not one of Sony's cybershot P&S cameras?

How about this, you take your EM1 to a party, and I take my A7 to a party. Then we post our pictures side by side. Guess who gets the most interesting ones? And no, I am not talking photographic abilities, just IQ, shallow DOF, portraits, low light, low noise, fast lenses, fast shutter-speeds to avoid subject blur, resolution and more.

In case you haven't noticed this yet; the A7 can do what the EM1 does, merely by stopping down (it is not diffraction limited). But for the EM1 to do anything like the A7, you'd be shooting WITHOUT a lens, since there are no f/0.7 lenses and faster out there. Last time I tried, shooting without a lens yields very fuzzy images without any detail

Please go shoot ACTION with your EM1. I laugh at some images, because I used to shoot those with MF lenses (yes manual). You can do pre-focus, zone-focus, trap-focus, burst-focus, track-focus, and on. So many techniques exist. Yet all I hear is that in iAuto mode the EM1 gets a higher keeper rate. Well, are you the photographer or is your camera?

Sorry if I am harsh on you - I seem to be dragging in some arguments made by your cohorts, not just you, but a lot of the claims are just silly. Sure, you can be a fan of Oly, their products are nice. But just stop stepping all over Sony because they built BETTER products.

Yes, BETTER. No matter how creative you are as a photographer, the m43 format limits you (YES IT DOES). Arguing the opposite just shows your bias. Loose the bias and begin to talk factually. Hint, I'll say it one more time: the EM1 and A7 don't really compete, they are really more symbiotic. Understanding why and how is the first step into acknowledging strength and weaknesses about both products.

But if you think that they compete, good luck.

Next week the A6000 will be announced. This camera is much closer to m43, and yet, even this camera does not really compete either, imho. Silly arguments.

Try to read and understand proper arguments, rather than keep switching topics and throwing in everything-and-the-kitchen-sink to make an argument. It does not change the outcome, it only changes how we view (all of) you...

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