raw files

Started Feb 6, 2014 | Discussions thread
verybiglebowski Veteran Member • Posts: 4,454
Re: raw files

stevo23 wrote:

verybiglebowski wrote:

leonmod wrote:

Which software reads raw files for a7R? Does Lightroom 5 does it? Please advise.

If you mean Sony .ARW that have far from raw data as they are lossy compressed

Has anyone really confirmed this - truly? I think it's actually not true and probably not a good idea to spread this idea around unless someone has truly confirmed that it's the case. I haven't quite seen any proof in this direction yet, only conjecture and assumption. Second, to say it's "far from raw", lossy or not, seems a mis-characterization.

If you mean - confirmed that Sony uses lossy compression for RAW, I don't know what would be evidence strong enough for you to accept it as a fact.

Check this: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1247655/147#12028909 or http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52931809 or Google to find other proofs, there are many. If it still doesn't convince you, maybe you can define what would?

How much this compression affects the image quality is entirely different story and it would remain rather hypothetical unless Sony brings uncompressed RAW in the firmware update, so that images could be compared. Recently, we don't know how uncompressed RAW would look like, so it is hard to say how much IQ is affected.

If you mean - evidence that software corrections are applied to RAW files, there are also many on the web, but let me show you this e.g.

Here are 3 shots in JPEG first:

Sony A7r + FE35/2.8

First image is with original firmware lens compensation set to off. (Custom settings/5 - Lens comp. Shading - off, Chro.Aber.Comp. - off, Distortion Comp. - off.
I will refer to this image as "Corrections Off"

Image above is with original camera firmware lens compensation set to auto. (Custom settings/5 - Lens comp. Shading - auto, Chro.Aber.Comp. - auto, Distortion Comp. - auto.
I will refer to this image as "Corrections Auto"

Finally, bellow is JPEG with external lens compensation application engaged, where corrections were exaggerated for easier follow-up. I will refer to this image as "Application corrected"

You can read (I hope) EXIF data from those jpegs, they should refer to related RAWs, that I made screen shots bellow...

I will show you now how the .ARW files looks when you open them in the Sony Image Data Converter first:

Correction off IDC

Correction Auto IDC

Application corrected IDC

As you can see, most of JPEG corrections are applied automatically when using Sony Image data Converter, but most of those are simply embedded in Metadata and not encoded in RAW.

When I open same .ARW files in Lightroom 5.3 with standard settings, here is what shows up:

Correction off LR5.3

Correction Auto LR5-3

Application corrected LR5-3

Difference between firmware lens compensation off and auto was small in JPEG and it remains small, almost indistinguishable in .ARW. However, correction of vignetting (using external lens comp. applications) is very visible as is CA corrections (actually anti-correction, just on purpose to show difference:

Application corrected LR5-3 - close-up of CA correction

But distortion corrections is not visible any more. At this point we might assume, that distortion correction is not "baked" in .ARW, because Lightroom is not native Sony raw converter, so it shouldn't use same protocols embedded in metadata. Or...

Here are screen-shots of related .ARW files using RAW digger. http://www.rawdigger.com/news

Correction off Raw Digger

Correction auto Raw Digger

Application corrected Raw Digger - close-up of CA correction

In the left top corner there is little square and related channel value figures are listed in the software header. Using those, you can see little differences between first two files (in camera firmware corrections off and auto), and huge difference in the last file (application corrected)

Let's see for CA with Raw Digger:

Application corrected Raw Digger - close-up of CA correction

I don't see CA correction any more. What I see however, comparing this close-up
with the one from the RAW Digger without Lens Comp. Application switched on (remember, this is external Sony application), is lack of sharpness:

Correction off Raw Digger - - close-up of CA

But I was in MF mode and didn't touch the focus between the shots...

From above samples it is clear that vignetting correction is certainly applied or more popular "baked" in .ARW

What else has been "baked" to .ARW we can probably only guess, because once again, we can hardly see uncompressed, uncorrected files to start with. Lack of sharpness in the last sample, should be more carefully investigated, but it might be side effect of the external application corrections.

Taking all that in consideration, I probably used strong terms in my post above, but I don't like that Sony doesn't give the user the option to save uncorrected and uncompressed RAW files.

All I am asking is the option to do so, for those of us who likes to have maximum control in post processing.

For the waste majority of users, all this written above, shouldn't be of a concern, and if Sony indeed sharpen images with FE lenses and thus achieve higher MTF figures, so be it, who care right?

At least they can charge premium for the lens that otherwise would have to cost less...

Oh, and if you don't know what are those blue, rad, orange color casts all over test images - I don't know either. There is only sunlight coming from the window beside and gently spreading on the pure white wall. (No color furniture reflections etc.)

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Don't trust your eyes or mind, they might betray you! Trust only comments posted on the forums, because there is the absolute truth!

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