Why no "magic lantern" type of magic for sony?

ronfab1 said:

^^^ should have replied to the thread

Hacking to get access to even more noisy ISOs on the A77 and really, after seeing youTube and Vimeo clips on the softness of deep depth of field video with even the A99, what is the point? They really need to get their bleep together with whichever body next year is supposed to be more video centric. No excuse. Not with their fabulous sensors and long history of professional video. The new president supposedly wants "game changing" products. Well….. step the hell up. Please!

This clip below says it all. Best zoom supposedly in the world used to A / B footage straight out of the NEX 5N and compare it to the best the A99 can do with his best sharpening in post. With how fabulous the A99 handles still imaging this is embarrassing.

Click to expand...

bobn2 said:

- The DIGIC is a Texas Instruments chip, using ARM processors, and there is lots of easily available data about it. TI releases data sheets without requiring NDA's or signing up as a full customer. That means there is lots of information on hardware configurations, instruction sets, etc. By contrast, its likely that the Bionz is a Sony produced variant of the Cell architecture used for the playstations, Being internal to Sony, it's much harder to get hold of the information hackers need.

Click to expand...

yndesai said:

bobn2 said:

- The DIGIC is a Texas Instruments chip, using ARM processors, and there is lots of easily available data about it. TI releases data sheets without requiring NDA's or signing up as a full customer. That means there is lots of information on hardware configurations, instruction sets, etc. By contrast, its likely that the Bionz is a Sony produced variant of the Cell architecture used for the playstations, Being internal to Sony, it's much harder to get hold of the information hackers need.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Shield3 said:

headfirst said:

Shield3 said:

headfirst said:

Shield3 said:

The Panasonic GH3 shoots 1080p60 without a time limit and is smaller or close to the same size as the a77. Does ISO 6400 in video mode. Pixel density? It's 16MP crammed onto a much smaller micro 4/3rds sensor, which is half the size of APS-C. So....perhaps Sony just didn't spend the time getting the video ironed out as well as they could have? Why is every Sony omission have to be purely because of a technical limitation? Don't get these responses.

Click to expand...

Iirc 4/3 is ~38% less area than a 1.5x crop factor APS-C. The pixel area on an A77 is only 8% larger than on a GH3 but it's also an older sensor.

Coming from the GH2 the GH3 was developed as a video-centric camera probably even more so than as a still body, the A77 wasn't.

Click to expand...

http://www.digicamdb.com/compare/panasonic_lumix-dmc-gh3-vs-sony_slt-a77/

"Sony SLT-A77 has approx. 63% more surface area than Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3."

The pixel density? The GH3 - 7.13 MP/cm² vs. 6.65 MP/cm². The GH3 is actually MORE dense than the a77!

Click to expand...

Nice to see that you are agreeing with my points albeit doing it in reverse

You started out by saying that the GH3 had a sensor 1/2 the size of an A77 which it doesn't.

Yes, the GH3 has a slightly higher pixel density but it's also a more modern sensor so I'll call that a wash.

Click to expand...

Ok, so 1.63x larger and not 2x larger. All apologies. Newer sensor? It's the same old 16 MP micro four thirds sensor, with some revisions. The GH2 doesn't overheat; even the hacked units, and that sensor is much older than the a77.

Click to expand...

Shield3 said:

Shield3 said:

Shield3 said:

So there goes the theory that it's heat caused by pixels too dense. Again, the GH3 can shoot unlimited video until you run out of battery or card space. More dense, SMALLER, (132.9 x 93.4 x 82.0 mm GH3 vs 143x104x81 mm A77), does 60p. GH3 can record video at 2 full stops above the a77 @ ISO 6400.

Click to expand...

Well, as I've already said in terms of the sensor alone it's a wash but chances are that the A77 has poorer heatsinking due to having IBIS which of course the GH3 doesn't have. & then the A77 has to crunch 24MP down to 2MP for video whereas the GH3 is 16MP>2MP & again probably using a more modern processor.

Click to expand...

The downscaling would have nothing to do with it - it's processing the data. As far as I know the a77 never overheated anyway; not sure why we're even having this discussion. The debate here is why Sony decided to limit the a77 to ISO 1600 - it's clearly because it'd be far too noisy; not because of heat (the a99 does ISO 6400 in video mode, with IBIS, has a 2.3 x times larger sensor, and I never saw it overheat either.

Click to expand...

Shield3 said:

Shield3 said:

The A77 has a time limit on video due to European import duties. Btw so does the PAL version of the GH3.

I'm not a film maker but it seems that they tend not to shoot 29 minute scenes (nor indeed use AF).

Click to expand...

You don't shoot long takes so the viewer has to sit through 1/2 hour scenes; it's for grabbing footage from multiple cameras. Imagine shooting a Catholic wedding, a 1 hour presentation, a school play - be nice to start recording with multiple cameras and just let them roll and combine footage later. This of course has 0 to do with ISO 1600 being the limit on the a77.

Click to expand...

Shield3 said:

Shield3 said:

Shield3 said:

So smaller, lighter, can shoot longer, more dense pixels, doesn't overheat. Same video frame rate. In fact, the GH3 does very high bitrate video around 75Mbit/s, while the A77 is capped at 28. So which camera SHOULD be overheating based on posts in this thread? The bigger one with less dense pixels shooting at a much lower ISO and bitrate, or the GH3?

Still waiting on other reasons why the a77 can't do above ISO 1600 other than that's just where Sony felt the noise would be too high.

Click to expand...

The reason is that (as I've already mentioned) the GH3 was designed to be a more video-centric camera than the A77.

Click to expand...

It's because the Sony a77's video would be far too noisy at ISO 3200 and above. There's no other reason, period.

Click to expand...

headfirst said:

I've never heard of an A77 overheat problem either but apparently Sony told the OP that it would if they had used a higher voltage to allow for higher ISO (see opening post) ...

Click to expand...

headfirst said:

headfirst said:

headfirst said:

The A77 has a time limit on video due to European import duties. Btw so does the PAL version of the GH3.

I'm not a film maker but it seems that they tend not to shoot 29 minute scenes (nor indeed use AF).

Click to expand...

You don't shoot long takes so the viewer has to sit through 1/2 hour scenes; it's for grabbing footage from multiple cameras. Imagine shooting a Catholic wedding, a 1 hour presentation, a school play - be nice to start recording with multiple cameras and just let them roll and combine footage later. This of course has 0 to do with ISO 1600 being the limit on the a77.

Click to expand...

No but it has to do with 1 of the OP's complaints - the 29 minute limit on video (due to EU import tariffs on video cameras rather than as I believe he thinks heat).

& something that I imagine would prove useful in your scenario is that the GH3 has embedded timecode ability for syncing (& which also shows that the GH3 was designed as a more video-centric camera).

Click to expand...

yndesai said:

http://www.sony.net/Products/Linux/DI/NEX-3N.html

This link proves that Bionz or whatever hardware is there is being operated by Linux.

Click to expand...

Plastek said:

headfirst said:

I've never heard of an A77 overheat problem either but apparently Sony told the OP that it would if they had used a higher voltage to allow for higher ISO (see opening post) ...

Plastek said:

Plastek said:

The A77 has a time limit on video due to European import duties. Btw so does the PAL version of the GH3.

I'm not a film maker but it seems that they tend not to shoot 29 minute scenes (nor indeed use AF).

Click to expand...

You don't shoot long takes so the viewer has to sit through 1/2 hour scenes; it's for grabbing footage from multiple cameras. Imagine shooting a Catholic wedding, a 1 hour presentation, a school play - be nice to start recording with multiple cameras and just let them roll and combine footage later. This of course has 0 to do with ISO 1600 being the limit on the a77.

Click to expand...

No but it has to do with 1 of the OP's complaints - the 29 minute limit on video (due to EU import tariffs on video cameras rather than as I believe he thinks heat).

& something that I imagine would prove useful in your scenario is that the GH3 has embedded timecode ability for syncing (& which also shows that the GH3 was designed as a more video-centric camera).

Click to expand...

A77 does overheat if you record too long movies. Simple test: Record maximum length if video, and than imminently start another one. It's somewhere between 1 and 1:30 when A77 usually overheats (Though it very much depends on a room temperature, rear LCD (whatever you got it tilted and turned on) and EVF (if it's on or off) ).

A77 can be overheated even by shooting too much in continuous shooting mode (it's ~140 shots till camera overheats - at least that's what it was when I made my own test at home)

Click to expand...

success100 said:

Plastek said:

headfirst said:

I've never heard of an A77 overheat problem either but apparently Sony told the OP that it would if they had used a higher voltage to allow for higher ISO (see opening post) ...

success100 said:

success100 said:

The A77 has a time limit on video due to European import duties. Btw so does the PAL version of the GH3.

I'm not a film maker but it seems that they tend not to shoot 29 minute scenes (nor indeed use AF).

Click to expand...

You don't shoot long takes so the viewer has to sit through 1/2 hour scenes; it's for grabbing footage from multiple cameras. Imagine shooting a Catholic wedding, a 1 hour presentation, a school play - be nice to start recording with multiple cameras and just let them roll and combine footage later. This of course has 0 to do with ISO 1600 being the limit on the a77.

Click to expand...

No but it has to do with 1 of the OP's complaints - the 29 minute limit on video (due to EU import tariffs on video cameras rather than as I believe he thinks heat).

& something that I imagine would prove useful in your scenario is that the GH3 has embedded timecode ability for syncing (& which also shows that the GH3 was designed as a more video-centric camera).

Click to expand...

A77 does overheat if you record too long movies. Simple test: Record maximum length if video, and than imminently start another one. It's somewhere between 1 and 1:30 when A77 usually overheats (Though it very much depends on a room temperature, rear LCD (whatever you got it tilted and turned on) and EVF (if it's on or off) ).

A77 can be overheated even by shooting too much in continuous shooting mode (it's ~140 shots till camera overheats - at least that's what it was when I made my own test at home)

Click to expand...

I use the a77 for wedding filming all the time. The only time Ive ever experienced overheating is when I was in 80 degree weather in direct sunlight.

Click to expand...