Have RF lenses had their day ?

Started Jan 5, 2014 | Discussions thread
parallaxproblem Veteran Member • Posts: 5,335
Re: Why the giggles?

JamieTux wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

JamieTux wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

JamieTux wrote:

Is that why they gave a voucher for a free metabones adapter in Australia?

A rather obvious 'bait-and-switch' marketing ploy... and the extra premium that Aussi customers normally pay for their gear probably covered the cost of the adaptor anyway!

Maybe but it goes against what you are trying to claim

Not at all

I was saying that Sony is trying to make money on the A7 and A7r system through the FE lenses and so they are not interested in making third party lenses work well on these bodies

So why offer the adapter for free?

I think I've already answered that question

This is actually a reversal of the policy with the NEX product line. The NEX bodies were always releatively expensive and Sony were rather slow to bring lenses to market for that system so they encouraged legacy lens use for those products

The NEX 5 was cheap at launch, especially considering the level of sensor.

Not really. If you look at the prices of NEX bodies prior to discount they were pretty similar to the prices of DSLRs with the same sensor inside. Except NEX bodies didn't really need any precision to construct whereas DSLRs need the mirror box, OVF, PD sensors etc... many more components and a much greater level of precision in construction. Mirrorless cameras have a higher margin than DSLRs

This is one of the reasons why the A7 and A7r can be sold cheaper than similar-sensored DSLRs.  It seems to me that Sony have changed their pricing model with this range

NEX and A7/R are very different product ranges, but many NEX users still haven't realised that yet

but I am sure that there will be other FE lenses and cameras further down the range, I know that what drove me to move away from NEX and further in to M43 was the lack of decent lenses in E mount - so if you're right about the strategy it backfired at the time (I had the LA-EA1 too before the 2 was announced).

I think there were several reasons for the lack of lenses, not least that Sony didn't understand who was buying NEX cameras (how many versions of the 18-200? how few pancake prime lenses?) and probably some internal politics and competition between the various depts (which the NEX team seems to have lost) not to mention floods etc

The fact remains that A7/r series and NEX are very different product ranges which have a different philosophy, as you seem to accept

It appeals to existing owners of those other systems and encourages them to buy the 'bargain-priced' A7 or A7r. Their existing lenses 'work' on the A7 via the adaptor, but not quite as well as an alternative E-mount lens would work. What do the owners do? Some will certainly replace their current lenses with E-mount ones!

Mabye they will, I for one won't

Good for you, but not representative

Why am I any less representative than any other individual? I would expect that most people would buy the lenses that plugged the gaps before replacing their existing ones - but I don't know (and nor do you).

I'm currently in a rather similar situation... I recently bought an expensive long telephoto zoom in A-mount (70-400G) to use on my NEX-5R as there was nothing suitable in A-mount. The resulting IQ is good, but operationally the the E->A-mount adaptor is driving me crazy so I am now wondering about buying an SLT-A77 (or changing system, or just hoping for an E-mount alternative to be released in the nearish future)!

I currently own an A99 and A7r, I bought the A7r with the 35mm to be my small camera and also so that I can invest in one set of (a mount) lenses, I already owned the 70-400 g2, 24-70, 85 f1.4, 135 f1.8 and 50 f1.4 and a Zeiss Planar 50 f2 and Leica Elmar-C 90 f4 both in m mount. The A7r gives me great results with all of those lenses and the only thing that I lose with any of them in functionality vs using then with native bodies is the IBIS on the a mount lenses...

Have you used your A-mount lenses on your camera yet?

Yes for a couple of paid jobs and they work incredibly well!

If you had you would have noticed that you do not have direct AF focus point selection witout having to dive into the menus (better A-mount bodies typically allow immediate access to this); nor focus peaking nor imgage magnifcation when in AF mode; nor the ability to customise the button on your longer lenses; nor DMF (this is an E-mount feature but which could be calculated for screw-AF A-mount lenses)

I need to press one button first the way that I have configured my camera, but with almost all shots that I've taken so far I've used the camera in manual focus. I use C1 to zoom focus with all lenses and don't have any auto zooming on manual focus.
I can see that this is a personal thing though so I can understand if it's a real issue for you.

It's not an issue in 'normal' photography, but for wildlife/birds every nano-second counts...

I bought the LA-EA2 for that specific task as prior to that I was using the LA-EA1 and MF

I also have an A900, and the 70-400G (v1) is a dream operationally when used on that camera (direct access to all the features I want), but a disappointment in terms of IQ ( http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52639783 ). However the reverse is true of the same lens mounted on a NEX-5R via LA-EA2

I only had the 70-300G on me A900 and the IQ was very impressive (including a day in a national park in Malawi and lots of birds in flight even on overcast days) - everything that I read or heard said that the 70-400 was better too and when I tried it earlier this year (before I got the G2) on my A99 the results were very good!

A900 also performs pretty badly with my 500/8 reflex

One of the potential causes might be 'Mirror Slap' which obviously wouldn't be a problem for the A99...

So I dint really know what you think is hair and switch or what your issues are with the LA-EA4 but I strongly disagree with your conclusion.

Please see the post just above in reply to 'harold1968' where I list my suggestions for improvments which should have been made to the LA-EA4 prior to release : http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52844912

I think that asking for top of the line AF in the adapter is a little unrealistic - as it would add cost (and people would be up in arms about that too!) but the other points seems well thought through but fortunately for me - it works for me.

The AF was introduced in 2011 so it's not brand new now. If Sony release a '5' or '6' series SLT camera then one would normally expect it to be included in it, with maybe something even better reserved for the advanced model?

Rather a rude way to respond to a reasonable argument, don't you think?

Not really - your post doesn't seem reasonable, it looks like a bunch of conclusions that you've made presented as fact - that's why I laughed.

I got 'baited-and-switched' by the 'adaptor' idea, and I'm sure I'm not the only one...

For what reason? Handling? IBIS? You could have bought a Nikon or Canon equivalent lens (if there was one as good) and then looked at their SLR options instead of Sonys, I don't really understand why you feel aggrieved or how you feel Sony have wronged you personally.

Why put words into my mouth? This kind of emotive talk just causes flames and arguments

What does bait-and-switch mean to you? To me it means being deliberately deceptive to a customer by selling them something that doesn't exist in order to get more money from them. It is a criminal activity that can result in criminal punishment.

A quick google brings lots of entries with terms like illegal, deceptive, fraud, etc.

So that's the emotive talk which as you say has brought flames and arguments - apologies for reacting but that's quite a strong term to me.

I don't feel 'wronged personally' otherwise I would have sold all my Sony stuff and jumped straight to a Canon 7D and EF100-400/4-5.6 (a pretty good lens, and tests of the Nikon AFS 80-400 suggest that lens is even better than the Sony equivalent though Nikon DSLRs do not appeal to me as I find them confusing to use)

Yes the Canon lens is very good (although I've seem plenty of reports of variable results between lenses) but it doesn't focus as fast as the Sony and doesn't focus as fast as the G2.

I'm stuck with the G1... Nice optics and build, but somewhat 'lethargic' (at least on the LA-EA2, maybe different on the A77 or A99?)

I needed a long lens for my NEX-5R. None was available in E-mount so I bought an A-mount lens and an LA-EA2 adaptor thinking that would be a good option. It turned-out to be a 'working option', but also rather frustrating in use so I need to look at buying an appropriate A-mount body to get the most out of the lens (and my A900 is not suitable, surprisingly)

Have you had your 70-400 and A900 checked by Sony? I can show you plenty of examples of the 70-300G performing much better on my A900 than the 70-400 lens did in yours (this isn't a bash on you - I seriously think from your post that you could have an issue there).

Thanks for the suggestion

My A900 works very with shorter focal lengths but is not good with either my 70-400 or my 500/8 reflex. Looking at commentaries from the time of launch on Dyxum, people found that the 70-400 worked better with the A700 than with the A900 and there was lots of talk about vibration issues with the A900 and having to hold the camera in a special way to 'absorb the vibrations' (!)

In terms of pure IQ, my NEX-5R/70-400G combo also rather convincingly stompedl-over a friend's 5DII with 100-400 (though their superior AF and deeper buffer meant they got many shots I missed). 5DII and A900 were contemporaries...

I think the (obviously) superior performance of the NEX over the A900 was down to two factors

- Mirror slap and 'shutter shock' (whatever) on the A900

- Newer, higher resolution sensor on the NEX-5R

I guess I could get it checked-over...  cheaper than buying an A77 if they do find something (but money down the drain if they don't...)

As I said, bait-and-switch...

And as I said - that's the emotive trigger again - that's an illegal activity that you are accusing Sony of doing - that's why I thought you were taking it personally and that's why I reacted.

And for what it's worth, I think that at current prices the A77 is an amazing camera if you do decide to go down that route.

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DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies

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DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies

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DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies

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Sony Alpha DSLR-A900 NEX5R Sony a77 II
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