This article should be read by everybody

Started Dec 12, 2013 | Discussions thread
K E Hoffman
K E Hoffman Veteran Member • Posts: 5,103
Sony a57 vs A77 Proof that Pixel Count Affects Noise

tbcass wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

If you read the article you will see he said if the standardized resolution was increased to 16mp the numbers would be a bit lower across the board but the relative comparisons would be the same. 8mp is used as a standard to accommodate the full range of resolutions available.

I love my Sony.. but this is a silly rationalization to try to pretend that an A77 and D600 are the same.

Nobody is saying that because you are comparing a FF sensor to an APS-C sensor. I get the feeling you don't understand this at all. Even at 8mp a FF sensor will score better than an APS-C sensor. The bottom line is when comparing 2 sensors of the same size the sensor with more resolution will have better IQ at lower iso, generally up to iso 800, while the IQ will be equal above that because of the necessary noise reduction.

I understand this very well.. and I am not dedicated to warping the facts to create the illusion of the perfect camera or the poor victimized camera hurt but "nasty biased" close up tests when we should all be looking at 8MP scaled images.

Sony did us a favor and I found the samples I was looking for. They built a 24 MP SLT APC camera and a 16 MP SLT APC at basically the same time so we see the costs of smaller pixels IN THE SAME GENERATION of sensor.

If you want to make the case that the A77 scaled to A57 is the same.. You are right up to ISO 3200. And ISO 6400 would be pretty close..The 1:1 differences where the pixel noise makes brighter flaws in the A77 will average out. So 99% if users who are not doing 20x30 sports prints.. will find no difference between the A57 and A77.

However.. Starting at ISO 3200 the differences would not scale out complete, especially in shadows where the smaller voltages off the pixels are overcome by noise, but its not too bad.

By ISO 12800 The number and intensity of noise affected pixels on the A77 are just too many. Does this mean I can't get workable shots at these ISO with PP enough that I could get that jump shot into the school newspaper even shot at ISO 6400 or even 12800. NO.. If people have reasonable ISO 6400 and 12800 etc expectations they will get shots. Having shot film these numbers still amaze me. Pushed Ektachrome to 3200 was a snow storm.

But the FACTS are the FACTS.. Similar technology, same sensor size. MORE PIXELS CREATES MORE NOISE because the signal output of the pixels is less but there are fixed noise contributors. So more pixels in mid to lower light areas will be about noise not the shot. Images with areas of dark will show noise there.. so if you don't live in a HIGH KEY world. there is a Noise Cost See Below.

Get this I am not complaining about my A77 NOR am I someone who thinks that given DR and color accuracy of Sony cameras.. that they should chase Nikon on noise measures..

But I also get really tired of made up facts.. Smaller pixels on the same size sensor have a cost..Not a myth but not the tragedy some would make it.

in the A77 vs A57 its about 2 more stops of very high ISO where detail is retained more that will not come back in scaling. [Watch the Rose in a medium light area]

ISO 6400

ISO 6400 There is detail being lost by A77 that will not come back scaling to 16 MP.. but for real world use you could still get a good web or 5x7 print

ISO 12800

No contest the 16 MP A57 is at least one stop better in detail than the A77.. PP and scaling will still get a reasonable image out of A77.. Probably good enough for most sports or news photography

ISO 16000

This shot a57 amazes me.. I can still see detail in the 16 MP shot that is gone for good from the 24 MP shot. If I shot 16000 ISO a lot I would want an A57 body along for the ride. Even the well lit high contrast paper clips are being welded together in A77 Noise.

Thus we conclude the academic attempt to say Mega Pixels don't have a ties to noise , unless you all call your eyes a myth.. now can we get back to arguing over the value of mirrors and OVF?

-- hide signature --

K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<

 K E Hoffman's gear list:K E Hoffman's gear list
Canon EOS 450D Nikon 1 J1 Sony a6500 Sony E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +3 more
Post (hide subjects) Posted by
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow