ISOless sensors, read noise and photography - many questions!

Started Oct 3, 2013 | Discussions thread
WilbaW Forum Pro • Posts: 11,386
Re: try before you cry

RussellInCincinnati wrote:

RussellInCincinnati wrote: But in paragraph 3 of 3 of that 21st post, in a summary, I did not mention that my experience was only with a Nex C3 or Lightroom.

WilbaW wrote: Right, and that's the bit of the whole discussion that a zealot would quote to justify telling everyone to do it. I often see that happen, hence my addition.

Finally get what you are saying. You (a) found some years ago (as did I) that raw post-processing brightening does not work as well as firmware high-ISO settings in your camera,


and thus (b) you speculate, without providing evidence, that my easily-done-in-2013 brightening of low-ISO images in post-processing (with examples) will not easily be duplicated with other cameras,


...thus (c) you post a warning that everyone should test limited-ISO first. You are concerned a zealot will take my summarizing workflow sentence that didn't mention the Nex C3 out of context,


and publicize the mistaken idea that I had tested brightening underexposed raw images on all cameras.


As if there is some way highly technical readers of this thread could tragically "buy" this hazardous workflow without testing it--the way they might buy an $8000 dollar Leica lens from a street vendor's cart in Istanbul, without return privileges.

Well, when I came across the idea (specifically, there is "no noise penalty" in working that way), advocated by several high profile experts here, the first thing I did was try it. The "no noise penalty" claim seemed valid but I found a "shadow colour penalty" that was hard to minimise. The amazing thing was, one of the experts was like, wow, I've never seen anyone do that, thanks a bunch!  Ya what? You've never actually tested it?!

But it's not the conscientious boffin you have to worry about, it's the high school drop-out on a quest to find backing for his unvalidated opinion, and he will come here and he will find your post and he will quote you out of context.

Where's some evidence, where's your low-ISO raw file from some reasonably modern camera? That shows that today's raw file software...can't easily work as about as well as in-camera high-ISO settings, to brighten dim images?

...But the shooting, processing, and IQ penalties of limiting ISO are not acceptable to me,

In some way that you are not going to show us.

You showed us the shadow colour penalty with your images earlier in the thread, you acknowledged it, then you dismissed it. I'm not trying to change your judgement, and you can't do that to me either.

for the way I shoot and process images, using my camera.

I beg to differ with you. You will not have any trouble limiting ISO to 800, and then brightening in post-processing with your Canon EOS60D (that you list as your camera), if you follow my repeated recommendations to try a $50 dollar copy of Lightroom 4. Because thanks to we know your '60D has less ISO 800 read noise than my Nex C3 (3.2 vs 3.4), and almost the same dynamic range as my Nex C3 (10.2 vs 10.6 EV), at ISO 800.

So, you're convinced that you can disprove my exception to a global claim that this method will give a net benefit to all photographers using any camera? That tells me you believe the global claim. I am the single exception required to disprove it.

If I were to provide two files, you would produce a brightened image from the dark one and claim that it's acceptable in comparison with the bright one...

It is just so silly to publicize doubt about a workflow that is supported with examples, when you are so worried that you will not able to provide a counter-example that you can't bring yourself to post one.

The exception is my judgement of acceptability, not a claim that you can't brighten an image with LR. How about you prove to me that the colour penalty you showed in your examples is acceptable to you? How ya gunna provide evidence of your thoughts?

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