Get this: Sigma WILL produce a camera that beats the current DSLRs resolution wise. Locked

Started Nov 20, 2013 | Discussions thread
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HBowman
HBowman Senior Member • Posts: 1,235
Re: Almost funny

Not funny at all.

Yes, so what ? APS format in the film times was a half-baked attempt to create a new market and it failed miserably but who cares?

contrary to 35mm sensors, no digital APS camera pretend that their goal was to perpetuate some kind of continuity with existing lenses or accessories so the history of it is completely irrelevant, except maybe to some marketing gurus that decided it was good to resurrect the word APS in their brochures

No. This half -backed attempt was a scientific/marketing move at first because when APS-C was introduced in film, company already have studies of the cost to craft digital sensors. By this time it was very expensive to craft an APS-C sensors (thus the price of the firsts Nikon APS-C DSLR) and some of us remember the huge price of the first Full Frame sensor, Kodak, and by extent the Leica DMR.

Seriously ? are you contending that 35mm sensors DSLR are selling in higher number that their APS counterparts ? Look at ANY brand and you will see that this is quite the opposite.

I spoke about film, not digital. Company educated us to feel that APS-C was a normal move and every photographers with a film experience was dreaming about a FF digital, period. Even today, many dream about a digital 35mm ala Minox.

Really ? have you heard also of weight and size ?

It may come as a surprise to you but if you were to check prices of latest mirorless offerings in both APS and micro 4/3rds it would become clear that lots of users are willing to pay same prices and even higher to have SMALLER and LIGHTER cameras or has this reality escape you as well?

It is up to us. Mirorless is a recent move in the photographic industry, helped with a powerful marketing. I do not say little formats are that bad. I say that they do not come close to what can do, even today, a simple D700. Smaller ? Ok. Lighter ? Not really. Weight is an important factor in the photographic discipline. For example (since you shoot with olympus DSLR), an Olympus DSLR is not that light even thought that it have a M43 sensor... same goes for the pentax DSLR. Little but heavy. This balance you more when you compose your shoot. It is part of the reflex experience. PPL who pay premium in M43 ... are in a well crafted marketing niche. They pay premium for fashion, style but not for the technology. M43 sensors are cheap to craft so we wonder were go the price apart in the package.

Cannot comment on the first part since I am not married .as to the second part , good 35mm lenses are still pricey if they are bright . But again , you seem to be so obsessed with the money side of the equation that you are forgetting again these pesky other two criteria : SIZE & WEIGHT

Good 35mm bright lenses are still pricey, yes, but the curve tend to go in the other way actually because of the VR + ISO capability. The f1.8 line for example, in Nikon line, is excellent and not expensive at all given their performances. In + you have company like SIGMA who are actually crafting stunning lenses (sometimes above the performances of big pricey lenses from Canon or Nikon) at a very cheap price. I speak about the 35mm f1.4 ART and by some extent about the 85mm f1.4 DG HSM (and I wonder what SIGMA Santa Claus will bring in the future about lenses...).

So what ? each format has some very good lenses. fail to see how it proves the point that ONLY 35mm sensor is the answer.

This is true. Each format do have some superb lenses, this is a fact. But when we say that lenses are the best investment we can make in 35mm world, this is not really true in the M43 or APS-C world because many want to jump in FF world at a time when they have the money to. It is why it is promulgated to buy good FF lenses to put on your APS-C DSLR because when you will move to FF, you already have the lenses. Many cried to not known that before.

Ha REAL photography versus , I guess , fake one . waouh the chip on your shoulder is getting big. People will notice that blasting the R word in your sentence does not make it less subject to being disagreed upon ...

There is no Fake photography. But 35mm experience will drop ppl in the experience we teach in photo schools since almost a century because, even today, we always refer to the "35mm equivalent". 35mm is the milestone. It is at the photography what speed of light is to the relativity : A milestone.

waouh, you should go out more often . Now REally ...

and also look at the sales numbers for APS sized DSLR versus 35mm DSLR...

This is only mater of price. Not effectiveness. It is also very complicated for brands to find the correct segmentation in their lineup. Nikon is the perfect guinea pig today to studies this problem.

Probably 80% of the market or more who do not feel the need to drag pounds of equipment when their needs can be fulfilled by stuff cheaper , lighter and smaller

you know REAL world concerns.

Drag pounds of equipments ? You know, most of ppl I know who do landscape photography are dragging pounds of equipment, even in hardcore mountain hike in the snow. The most common is Nikon DSLR with WA lenses (D300 or D700 + 14-24). We see more and more D800 and 5DMKIII on the field with Zeiss glass. They also seek rugged gear (Pantax is doing well in this segment). They seek IQ. I do not speak about MF shooters. SIGMA is a true exception IQ wise but the battery... It is up to you to grab a m43 to do landscape but don't think you will come even close to what can do FF in this field, especially when you print.

Now when we speak about reportage shooters this is an another story because they seek light and discrete gear. In this field, this is true that we have nothing really discrete nor cheap 35mm solutions... till today. The sony RX1/A7/A7r change the landscape for real. Photographer who seek IQ will go 35mm just because 35mm sensors are... better. When you test a leica M (even if it is not that easy to use at first) you fall in IQ and artistic control. When you come back to your APS-C/M43 equipment and you look at the picture you just say meeeee wtf ??...

ONLY advantages ?

well at least you are consistant with your ignoring the size and weight factor. who knows maybe you have someone carry your equipment for you.

Again, size and weight are not a big problem... ppl who seek IQ are absolutely ready to make this little sacrifice. Now Sony lead the way with their "look !! look what we can and actually do lol" so your argument fall apart. And no, I do not have assistants I just organized my gear for my needs and carry 3 brands at a time sometimes. The cameras are not that heavy. The big problem is what goes around : Lightnings, stands for lights, generators... here we speak about problems.

One day a master photographer told me "when you will taste bigger formats, you will never want to go back again...". He was here in his studio, shooting with a 5DMKII with TS lens and a beautiful 4x5 chamber. I didn't trust him at all. I was with my DP2s and a pentax k7 and some good lenses. I was persuaded he was very very very wrong !!

He lend me a fuji 645 with a roll and told me to play with it, with a smile... and I seen what he meant. Since then I got 35mm DSLR and I will never ever throw it because of the weight ... Never. I speak about my experience here. But every young photographers I know are just dreaming the day they will jump in FF, d.r.e.a.m.i.n.g

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