Get this: Sigma WILL produce a camera that beats the current DSLRs resolution wise. Locked

Started Nov 20, 2013 | Discussions thread
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(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 741
I kinda lost track

Richard Franiec wrote:

Laurence Matson wrote:

yvind Strm wrote:

Interesting. Either you (and Kendall) are better informed than Sigmas own CEO, Kazuto Yamaki, or you accuse him of telling lies. Or you have slept in class. I suppose its the latter, and thus the argumentation you provide in your answer kind of falls on the floor.

You claim that the high SD1 price (and subsequent price reduction) was not due to production issues?

This is what he said:

“We could not solve issues related to some of the manufacturing methods before the start of mass production, and the production cost ended up substantially exceeding our originally expected price. As a result, we had no choice but to set the price of the Sigma SD1 high,” said Kazuto Yamaki CEO of Sigma Corporation. “Since then, overcoming this situation has become the first priority for us and Foveon, and we have together made improvements to reduce production cost substantially … Although some of the manufacturing methods have been enhanced, the performance and characteristics of the sensor itself have not changed. “

Laurence Matson wrote:

yvind Strm wrote:

Rumors are rumors.

Excellent observation

Thank you

Speculation is speculation.

Excellent observation

Again, thank you

History is history. And this is where we need to look.

Excellent observation

Now you are repeating yourself.

Sigma WILL announce a camera that beats the new Sony and the D800/E resolution wise. It will be FF, with the same sensor density as with the SD1. They will not announce it before they have total control of the production costs.

Rumor and speculation

Yes.

HOPEFULLY they have improved noise and high ISO. HOPEFULLY they spec it with faster processing, and a really deep buffer. HOPEFULLY it will have tethered, live view and video.

Wishful thinking

Really? You think its wishfull thinking that Sigma will improve high ISO, provide faster processing and deeper buffer? My god, that is a disappointment.

History lesson: In the end of 2008, after Sigma had acquired Foveon, Sigma and Foveon executives sat down and predicted where the industry (dSLR) would be two years from then, and then designed a camera that would beat the market, for announcement on Photokina 2010. Foveon had developed a more dense sensor (for us in mobile phones). All they needed was to enlarge the design and put it in a new camera. They succeeded - almost.

Grade: D- Almost completely incorrect information with the exception of what is obvious (announcement at photokina 2010 as one example). Otherwise, speculation filled with errors.

Sorry, there are not a single speculation in that "History lesson". All is gathered from what has been said in interviews with Sigma officials. Not my fault that you fail to keep informed. The conclusion is obvious.

At Photokina 2010 they announced the SD1, a camera with better resolution than any other DSLR at that time, and set an incredible low price expectation. Everything was set for the biggest success of all times for Sigma. Many people had their cards ready, me included.

Grade: C- How do you define resolution? No citation. The price announced was not incredibly low but rather reasonable and within the targeted competition range.

Sorry, I am not a master of language. Incredible was meant as an admiration of the bold pricing expectation, in the sense that I would have expected it to have a somewhat higher price tag.

Unfortunately, they ran into production problems and were forced to announce a initial price of USD 9700. People were furious, especially because Sigma did not tell why at that time.

Grade: F Completely incorrect with the exception of the price range. No citation on the production problems claim, for instance. (Hint: you will not find one either.)

“We could not solve issues related to some of the manufacturing methods before the start of mass production, and the production cost ended up substantially exceeding our originally expected price. As a result, we had no choice but to set the price of the Sigma SD1 high,” said Kazuto Yamaki CEO of Sigma Corporation. “Since then, overcoming this situation has become the first priority for us and Foveon, and we have together made improvements to reduce production cost substantially … Although some of the manufacturing methods have been enhanced, the performance and characteristics of the sensor itself have not changed. “

Yeah, and there were no anger in this forum?

And Sigma did tell why they had set that price? Now its your turn ti cite.

Unfortunately, when they had solved the production problem, and announced the SD1 on PMA 2012, Nikon announced the D800/E, at about 1/3 of the initial SD1 price and close to the new SD1M price.

Grade: F Obvious observation. Since there was no production problem to correct, there was nothing that was solved.

Oh, seem like it was production problems after all.

“We could not solve issues related to some of the manufacturing methods before the start of mass production, and the production cost ended up substantially exceeding our originally expected price. As a result, we had no choice but to set the price of the Sigma SD1 high,” said Kazuto Yamaki CEO of Sigma Corporation. “Since then, overcoming this situation has become the first priority for us and Foveon, and we have together made improvements to reduce production cost substantially … Although some of the manufacturing methods have been enhanced, the performance and characteristics of the sensor itself have not changed. “

Very bad luck, if they had been able to deliver, with the initial price from march 2011, they would have had the scene alone for almost a year. And sold in buckets.

The rest is complete fluff, speculation and rumor mongering.

You are just envious for not being able to produce such a brilliant prediction.

Its two points in this:

1. Sigma plans ahead. They foresaw the competitors development. Even while they developed the SD1, plans were laid for expanding the line upwards. The current sensor is from 2008, and still used in all cameras. Does anyone think Foveon has been sitting on their hands since 2008? For five years? Of course not. Yes, they have made a great effort with the DPxMs. But of course they have a new sensor (if not anything else, a FF version of the current sensor, with better high ISO) and a new camera. I suppose the original plan was to announce a FF in 2012. But:

2. With the SD1, Sigma choose to deliver the camera at the announced time, hopefully to leave the history of massive delays of SD14 and SD15 behind. With SD1, they got virtually no sale, because of a high price. In retrospect, they should have stopped production until they had control. They will never again release a camera before they have total control of production costs, no matter how much delayed it will be.

Why haven´t we seen the SD-FF yet? I think its because they are facing challenges, and want to control these before announcing a SD-FF.

Or, the competition made an unforeseen jump with the 36MP sensor, so the SD-FF would not make a needed leap, and they need to skip a generation.

For those thinking Sigma is leaving DSLR, I think they are not. They are a lens company, with ambitions for becoming a player on the DSLR market, with a larger range of cameras. The DP range has always been meant to lure people into the SD segment. They sell so few that the line itself is meaningless.

Photokina 2014: SD-FF. (I predicted 3x15MP before Photkina 2010, so mark my words.)

If I recall correctly, this is also wrong.

The prediction you mean? You have already shown how good you are at recall information. Hint: Its true. Just tell me if you need a link.

No. I think I can find the one I have in mind. I already went through this with you once before.

There will be no 4/3 camera from Sigma at this time.

Speculation

I will leave it to you to figure out why Kendall and I are correct and the CEO still would write that in good faith.

The excuse made by then Sigma CEO was just credible looking attempt to cover up one of the biggest (if not the biggest) blunders in history of digital cameras: introductory SD1 price.

Introductory price was set at incredible $9700.00 to fulfill Mr. Michichiro Yamaki's delusion to compete within medium format segment, namely with Pentax 645 priced at the same level. We all know the result of this competition: Pentax is still selling for a premium price, SD1, of course, is selling as well but for 1/10th of its original price.

Since you are such a scholar of history, I will give you a hint of where to begin your research:

Read carefully the introduction to the Sources in The Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman and pay particular attention to the third paragraph. Understanding the Foreword to The Proud Tower by the same author will also help you. Then read as much as you can by Edwin Reischauer.

Good luck!

And hurry before this nonsensical drivel gets blocked. There are only a few more hours until the sun rises in Hawaii.

Rick will not do that even if he disagrees with OP

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Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"I thought: I read something in a book, I dream, I imagine, and it comes true. And it is exactly like this in life.
"You can dream, and it comes true, as long as you can get out of the certitudes. As long as you can get a pioneering spirit, as long as you can explore, as long as you can think off the grid. So much time we spend in our education, in our lives is spent learning certitudes, learning habits, trying to fight against the unknown, to avoid the doubts and question marks. As soon as you start to love the unknown, to love the doubts, to love the question marks, life becomes an absolutely fabulous adventure."
Bertrand Piccard, a Swiss person
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
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