Olympus 12-40 easily beats the Canon 17-55 at f/2.8 (but not when stopped down).

Started Nov 3, 2013 | Discussions thread
PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 13,988
Re: If you have experience

Anders W wrote:

PerL wrote:

Anders W wrote:

jim stirling wrote:

Hello Anders, I understand where you are coming from but with regards to the final image even the current lowest MP count FF the D4 with its 16mp sensor out resolves the EM1 with its 16mp and no AA filter. The following samples all at 200ISO, only processing is default sharpening and a 5% increase in the size of the EM1 to make for near identical output size. Both are taken at 50mm equiv with the aperture on both lenses set at F5.6. Obviously higher res models such as the D800 /D600/A7r etc would all do even better.

At high ISO settings 1600 in this instance the detail advantage to the D4 is even more obvious as noise is impacting the EM1 file more severely.

Don't know why you keep citing invalid evidence shot to pieces already half a year ago:


In an apples for apples comparison between mFT and FF lenses ie same DOF and same AOV { critical components of the equivalence equation} FF lenses will out resolve mFT lenses at every ISO. The only way mFT lenses appear to have better resolution is when you compare them wide open against say the Panasonic 25mm F1.4 [ now bolted to my new GX7 which is worth gold to me even of DPreview disagree } vs the Nikon 50mm F1.4g when compared at the same DOF this is not the case.

As I already shown here,


MFT lenses sometimes go equal with FF lenses even when compared at the same DoF and with the FF lens enjoying the extra benefit of being tested on a sensor with higher resolution. I am not arguing that this is generally the case though. See the last of the links I provide in this post for my general position on the matter.

Lenstip is no better than any of the other test sites their methodology is far from perfect none of them are perfect as we both know

No. Neither is perfect but that's no reason to use inferior options.

, I can easily reference very reputable sources that challenge the validity of Lenstip.

I know you can cite one specific source. And I have asked you several time on what specific grounds he challenges it. No answer so far.


P.S.: The source I cited in this thread was not Lenstip. It was LensRentals, more specifically Roger Cicala. With regard to lens performance, I consider him as much of an authority as there is. But that's beside the point. I prefer not to appeal to authority. What counts is the evidence, more specifically good evidence.

.As for lensrentals conclusions that a a short tele lens the 75mm Olympus is sharper than a 24mm this is hardly surprising how do you think the Olympus 12mm would compare

As follows:

Canon 24/2.8 on 5D2 (21 MP):

2.8 865/725

Olympus 12/2 on E-M5 (16 MP):

2.0 860/730

2.8 1000/845

4.0 1040/870




Both mFT and FF have their respective advantages and disadvantages. Though in the vast majority of my photography I could do better { higher resolution, more DR, better shadow noise , better high ISO} with my D800 and FF glass the burden of weight and inconvenience offer an oft times off putting extra hurdle to jump.

Perhaps you could. I couldn't. See here for a summary of the pertinent facts:


mFT accounts for easily 90% of my photography and I am very happy with it. In fact my long time companion camera { my take everywhere GF1} may finally get to retire with the GX7 taking its place in my affections

Why do you use it for 90 percent of your photography if you consider FF superior?

Neither side of this debate is going to concede to the other and the almost endless FF vs mFT posts often cause a lot of bad feeling .It would be great if these posts disappeared this will probably happen, the day after they declare world peace and Scotland win the world cup

Debating the facts is useful if done right. Debating the practical conclusions each of us draw from those facts may be less useful.

Anders, you are always selective in choosing the test sources supporting your views by excluding Photozone and DxO Marks, but I think you are almost alone even on the m43 forum in believing that m43 gives better IQ than FF. I know you never give up a debate, so I will say no more.

I do not choose test sources supporting my views. I choose test sources with good data.

As to Photozone, did you ever see the big sign on their front page saying:

Please note that the tests results are not comparable across the different systems!


Yes, but I don't read it as you do. I read it as you can't judge the quality of a lens by comparing it to a lens tested on another system/sensor because the sensor impacts the results. That correlates for instance very well with the results of top Canon primes tested on 21 mp sensors vs top Nikon primes tested on 24 mp sensors, where the difference in the Nikon lenses favour is what you would expect of 24 vs 21 mp. The Photozone results seems to correlate well to scores on DxO marks.

Your theory that they use different levels of sharpening on different sensors seems far fetched to me. Why would they use much higher sharpening on FF lenses than on other formats?

As to DxO, please let me know how, in precise technical terms, how they define the sharpness measures they use (P-MPix and "acutance"). If you can't do that, what basis do you have for relying on their tests?

I am sure they mean something though.

I have asked/told you and others these things many times before. Yet, you pretend as though you are unaware of them. Why?

As to the question of IQ: I am not arguing that MFT gives better IQ than FF for everyone. I am just saying that it does so for me personally. The reason is that for my photographic objectives, which may well be different from yours, I prefer more "FL control" (a wide selection of lenses in the bag or vest I am carrying) to more "DoF control". Simple as that.

Thats is a very well put argument which I can understand, even if I personally prefer the best performance and DOF control on the focal lengths I use most.

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