I never thought I would miss Jimmy Carter...

Started Oct 9, 2013 | Discussions thread
vadimraskin Veteran Member • Posts: 3,596
Re: And that's way too easy

TrapperJohn wrote:

I see a lot of people here who want to dismiss the tp as the offspring of some evil group of rich schemers, just as the hardcore right wants to dismiss left wing organizations as the spawn of George Soros.

It is not. It is a grassroots movement that reflects the opinion of a lot of people, just as Occupy was a grassroots movement of the left wing, another offshoot of the 2007 real estate crash. The difference is, the tp got people elected to congress, while Occupy just made a mess in public parks. Deride them if you wish, but the tp was far more effective than Occupy in forcing change. I don't agree with the hardcore right baggage that comes with them, but I do acknowledge that they are effective in achieving their goals.

Of course they are effective: they are well financed, organized and led by seasoned political operatives. "Occupy" was just a bunch of idiots with nothing better to do.

When you deal with a group whose opinions you don't agree with, the worst thing you can do is dismiss them as irrational. Understand where they are coming from, and you're one step closer to striking a mutually palatable agreement. Like it or not, the tp isn't going away. You will have to deal with them - Obama has pretty much proven that insulting them just makes them more persistent.

About the only thing they stand for that I agree with is bringing the budget deficit under control - it was tp members that spearheaded the 2011 budget, the one that Obama stayed out of until it was almost too late.

The deficit IS under control; it is being reduced every year for the last four years. Somehow everyone keeps ignoring this little tibit of the fact. Dealing with budget is a job of the Congress. I guess he was still naive back then. Now he learned his lesson (I hope)

I also see the tp's hard line stance as a response to Obama's equally hard line stance. Neither will budge, so we have an impasse.

His hard stance is fully justified in this case: the party that lost elections should not be allowed to advance its agenda that was rejected by the majority of voters via appropriation. It is akin a hostage taking. The Law was passed and stood multiple legal challenges. It is the LAW. Negotiating budgetary lines is one thing but trying to over-write the Law thru de-funding it is entire different; trying to sabotage the Law by delaying implementation of its major component is similar to terrorism. It sets a VERY BAD precedent, which essentially gives an unchecked legislative power to a half of one of the three branches. It is a double edged sword and it will hurt GOP is they find themselves in similar position next time around. As much as I want to see this crisis end, I am with Obama on this one.

Obviously, if one agrees with Obama's direction, they believe the tp is wrong.

Being a pragmatist, I don't particularly agree with either. I do have great concern that this extremism is the very opposite of what the political process is all about - each side gives a bit and gets a bit, until both are at least mollified, if not satisfied.

Smoke filled back rooms are starting to look pretty good. At least agreements were hammered out in them.

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