How do i explain to someone its not about megapixels ?

Started Oct 4, 2013 | Questions thread
Jay Ell Regular Member • Posts: 256
Re: Fujifilm F31fd vs. Nokia Lumia 1020

Joe186 wrote:

Jay Ell wrote:

Joe186 wrote:

Eh, those 41 MP phones are semi-bogus.

Hardly.

The lens and pixel density gets them.

Pixel pitch has little to do with noise. And the lens is very high performing.

The Lumia 1020 has not only a larger sensor than the F31, but also one that is significantly more modern, ie. has much lower read noise and higher quantum efficiency. Additionally the lens is faster. It has much higher performance potential in low light as well as other conditions than the F31 has.

My prints are 8.5x11, to fit in standard binders, etc. Though, all the models want those big, long (please don’t say it) 9x12 prints now.

Because of that, I need to shoot at ISO 200/400 with the F31. There’s no noise at all, but I do need to keep very steady hands.

No noise equals plenty of noise reduction. That was always one reason Fuji F31 was though to have excellent low light performance among it's peers. The real advantage of it was that the sensor was quite large for such camera. The sensor itself was mediocre in it's time, very inefficient compared to today's sensors.

As you may be aware of, light itself is noisy, thus if there is no noise, it's been sanitized in software.

An acquaintance has an RX100 II. Believe or not, I still prefer the colors and tones of the F31.

What’s your opinion of that?

Opinions are like [cencored] - everyone has one

(nothing wrong with preferring one camera's performance over another as long as one remains in subjective domain or agrees with evidence, or both. Nice that you like yours!)

Yes, it is a remarkable camera-phone, great high tech, etc. On the subject of the lens, the Lumia 1020 has a wider and faster lens than an F31fd, but is it actually better? Straying too far off 35-50mm always seems to bring compromises.

Well, the 31fd has a zoom lens which means more complex design is needed for similar performance, and usually the performance will be inferior, especially for older desings.

The reson why going much below 55mm tends to lower lens quality is a SLR-related issue (due the large flange focal distances) - compacts, mirrorless and cell phones have no such issue.

Additional note, the 31fd has 8-24mm zoom, the Lumia a 7.2mm lens.

The 1020 does have it’s six irregularly contoured lens elements, to offset barrel, pincushion, fringing, etc., but now we’re talking straight physics. To receive, you must give up, no matter what.

You're reading that from marketing material of Fuj, aren't you?

I have no idea what you mean by "irregularly countoured lens elements". It's not stardard optical vocabulary. Anyhow, all lenses have many elements to offset all kinds of distortions and other aberrations.There is nothing special in the Fuji zoom.

The 1020 has 6 elements, and all the 12 surfaces as aspherical. The cell phone cameras lenses tend to be very advanced designs, but 12 asph surfaces is just fantastic (and roughly equal to 12 non-aspherical element conventional design).

What does the 1020’s lens give up to get those specs, in such a compact design?

Nothing really. It is a high end prime lens with really fantastic element characteristics.

I honestly don’t know. In-camera image correction, has it’s compromises too.

What in-camera image correction?

The F31fd’s lens just isn’t asking so much of the light it receives.

Huh? That makes no sense. The lens is just a device which draws the light it collects into the film plane from where the sensor samples it. This cell phone lens puts more light on the film plane than the Fuji. Additionally the (Toshiba?) sensor in the Nokia is significantly more efficient and has much lower read noise to increase the difference still.

They are indeed apples and oranges.

In a way yes, but both are (or were in the case of the Fuji) filling the same niche - compact portable camera.

At that, possibly one of the best examples in compact style photography, of using that phrase. The sensors especially. So vastly different, the time it would take to do a sensor comparison, would far exceed diminishing returns.

Sensors can be measured quite easily if the raw data is available (Nokia doesn't give it), but side by side tests in the would shot the cell phone be significantly superior. This is just what happens when tecnology gets better - the Fuji was fine 6.5 years ago. The Nokia is today's state of the art.

In the F31fd’s favor, are still focus/image processing speed, battery life, insane reliability and nobody can say, that it still doesn't take great pictures.

Well, a photographer takes the great pictures. I am not sure I could take great ones with any tool.

And regarding reliability, I'm willing to bet a lot that the Nokia is far more durable than the Fuji. Youtube is filled with Nokia torture videos (though mainly alightly older and less camaraful 920) when the phone survives almost anything.

At this point, because they are so different, the only real answer would be an objective, public opinion oriented, image challenge

Obective public opinion based test? Sounds like an oxymoron to me

No amount of subjective opinions trups scientific tests.

Anyhow, there is zero objective reason to think that a 6.5 year old compact which shares the sensor of an over 7 year old compact, with a zoom lens, would somehow give a run for the money for a current state of the art imager with brighter prime lens and significantly superior image sensor.

Anyhow, some 6 or 7 years ago I recommended the Fuji F30 to a family member and she ended up being very happy with the camera. When it comes to image quality, pretty much all the currect compacts with large enough sensor and at least a couple of cell phones (Lumia 1020 ja the older symbian based Nokia) are much superior to the old horse.

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