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No Exposure Simulation w/ Manual Lens - Why Canon?

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Matt Mikulla Photography

Matt Mikulla Photography

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Basically if you are using third party manual lens with no electronic communication the live view exposure simulation is almost completely dark.

When you switch to video mode everything is fine.

I know this is a documented bug that has existed for years, but why has Canon not fixed this?

Besides wanting to sell more Canon lenses.

Are there any easy workarounds besides switching to video or switching to a canon lens and back.

I'm sure magic lantern can resolve this but they don't have a stable release and I'd rather not go that route.

We should demand more from Canon.
 
Interesting expectation that a company should develop features to cut into its own sales.
 
Maybe I'm sticking my foot in my mouth again, but I don't think this is true. In fact, I believe I used exposure simulation with my Samyang 14mm not too long ago.

It will need to wait until later tonight when I get home to confirm, though.
--
- Bill
 
It works in video mode and there is no reason it should not work when not in video.

It's either bad software or a **** move on Canon's part.

Loading…

vimeo.com
 
I should have stated I'm using a 6D, but I think this issue is present with most Canon DSLRs.

It is also worth noting that the histogram is completely wrong too.
 
billythek said:
billythek wrote:

Maybe I'm sticking my foot in my mouth again, but I don't think this is true. In fact, I believe I used exposure simulation with my Samyang 14mm not too long ago.

It will need to wait until later tonight when I get home to confirm, though.
--
- Bill
Click to expand...
I retested, and exposure simulation in Live View still works with my Samyang 14mm lens.

I tested it in M and Av modes in Live View. I can't change what the camera thinks the aperture is. It thinks it is f/1.4 all the time. But in Manual mode, if I set the ISO and shutter speed, and vary the aperture on the lens, the brightness of the display varies accordingly. Likewise if I vary the other two parameters, ISO and shutterspeed, the display brightness will change. If I take a picture, the jpeg that is captured matches the brightness that was on the display, as close as I can tell.

In Av mode, the display always seems to be the same well-exposed brightness. That is because if I change ISO, it compensates by changing shutterspeed to get what it thinks is proper exposure. If I try to change Ev, it seems to have no effect with this manual lens. Maybe it is because it doesn't really know the aperture, or perhaps some other reason. But the display does seem to match the brightness of the picture that is taken, so I'd say exposure simulation works in this case, too.

So, what modes are you using? Can you try it in M mode? You do have exposure simulation enabled in the menus, right?
 
Matt Mikulla Photography said:
matt mikulla wrote:

Basically if you are using third party manual lens with no electronic communication the live view exposure simulation is almost completely dark.

When you switch to video mode everything is fine.

I know this is a documented bug that has existed for years, but why has Canon not fixed this?

Besides wanting to sell more Canon lenses.

Are there any easy workarounds besides switching to video or switching to a canon lens and back.

I'm sure magic lantern can resolve this but they don't have a stable release and I'd rather not go that route.

We should demand more from Canon.
Click to expand...

You could try it the old-fashioned way and adjust exposure with the exposure bar. If you are uncertain as to the accuracy of the meter, bracket 3 or 5 shots set at 1/3 stops apart.
 
billythek said:
billythek wrote:
billythek said:
billythek wrote:

Maybe I'm sticking my foot in my mouth again, but I don't think this is true. In fact, I believe I used exposure simulation with my Samyang 14mm not too long ago.

It will need to wait until later tonight when I get home to confirm, though.
--
- Bill
Click to expand...
I retested, and exposure simulation in Live View still works with my Samyang 14mm lens.

I tested it in M and Av modes in Live View. I can't change what the camera thinks the aperture is. It thinks it is f/1.4 all the time. But in Manual mode, if I set the ISO and shutter speed, and vary the aperture on the lens, the brightness of the display varies accordingly. Likewise if I vary the other two parameters, ISO and shutterspeed, the display brightness will change. If I take a picture, the jpeg that is captured matches the brightness that was on the display, as close as I can tell.

In Av mode, the display always seems to be the same well-exposed brightness. That is because if I change ISO, it compensates by changing shutterspeed to get what it thinks is proper exposure. If I try to change Ev, it seems to have no effect with this manual lens. Maybe it is because it doesn't really know the aperture, or perhaps some other reason. But the display does seem to match the brightness of the picture that is taken, so I'd say exposure simulation works in this case, too.

So, what modes are you using? Can you try it in M mode? You do have exposure simulation enabled in the menus, right?
Click to expand...
(The comments above were directed at the OP, not myself.)

I should also point out that I have a Dandelion focus confirmation chip glued onto my Samyang 14mm. That's the reason the lens reports as f/1.4. If I program the chip, I can change the aperture and focal length it reports, but my understanding was that only affects what gets put into the exif. So, I haven't bothered with that, and just use the chip for focus confirmation.

However, some additional reading turned up that the chip will facilitate TTL operation. That's about the extent of the documentation on this "TTL" feature. Maybe this capability also allows the exposure simulation that I see happening with this lens. I don't know. I'm not about to try to remove the epoxy to see how the lens behaves without the chip.

Maybe the OP should try the M mode experiment I mentioned above. If it doesn't work for him, perhaps it is a good reason to get a chip or a chipped adapter.
 
Matt Mikulla Photography said:
matt mikulla wrote:

Basically if you are using third party manual lens with no electronic communication the live view exposure simulation is almost completely dark.
Click to expand...
If there is no aperture indication, how can Canon simulate a certain aperture??
Matt Mikulla Photography said:
When you switch to video mode everything is fine.
Click to expand...
Video mode does not use exposure simulation. It uses actual exposure.
Matt Mikulla Photography said:
I know this is a documented bug that has existed for years, but why has Canon not fixed this?
Click to expand...
It is not a bug. Exposure simulation simulates the exposure of a closed aperture, while the aperture actually is open. The camera needs to know aperture and aperture setting in order to simulate anything.
Matt Mikulla Photography said:
Besides wanting to sell more Canon lenses.
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with that.
Matt Mikulla Photography said:
Are there any easy workarounds besides switching to video or switching to a canon lens and back.
Click to expand...
Yes, use an adapter with focus confirmation chip. Or turn off Exposure simulation.
Matt Mikulla Photography said:
I'm sure magic lantern can resolve this but they don't have a stable release and I'd rather not go that route.

We should demand more from Canon.
Click to expand...
No, we should not. You should start to understand what "exposure simulation" means.
 
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If we assume exposure simulation works with no lens attached at all, then it should still work with the light coming in when using the fully open lens. Then, since the camera knows nothing about the lens, "fully open" would be whatever the aperture in the lens is set to.
 
Matt Mikulla Photography said:
matt mikulla wrote:

Basically if you are using third party manual lens with no electronic communication the live view exposure simulation is almost completely dark.

When you switch to video mode everything is fine.

I know this is a documented bug that has existed for years, but why has Canon not fixed this?

Besides wanting to sell more Canon lenses.
Click to expand...
considering that ExpSim works with non canon EF mount lenses from Sigma, Tamron, Tonika, etc - i'd have to say you have some seriously flawed logic here, but that may be just me.

you're asking canon to fix a problem with a completely unsupported lens and mount adapter attached to their camera bodies - want to know what the level of priority that would be? considering that the camera doesn't know what the lens aperture is to calculate out what the simulated exposure would be - i'm not even sure how they would even go about this. Not to mention most times usually running a manual lens you should be in Av mode anyways.
 
Last edited:
apersson850 said:
apersson850 wrote:

If we assume exposure simulation works with no lens attached at all,
Click to expand...
Why would we assume that?
apersson850 said:
then it should still work with the light coming in when using the fully open lens. Then, since the camera knows nothing about the lens, "fully open" would be whatever the aperture in the lens is set to.
Click to expand...
Just turn exp. sim. off. Then the camera will just show what it receives.
apersson850 said:
--
Anders
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the input all.

When I discovered the issue I tested both manual and AV.

I'll do some more tests later when I'm at home.

I am using an adapter with a dandelion chip. It provides focus feedback by default but I have not programmed it.
 
Takes some work around but can be fixed. essentially the camera remembers the aperture setting of the last compatible lens attached to the camera. you need to set the camera to the lowest aperture setting, shut down and remove the compatible lens. add the old manual lens with converter tube and things should be better now... i have done this on my eos - m and it works fine. pop on the 22mm lens, set apperture to 2 and then pop on my m42 super takumar 3.5 - 22 and it works fine...

the other work around is to have everything on manual as per above, but set the ISO to auto. this will compensate and you will see on the live view exactly what you should. i don;t use this work around purely because it removes some control over exposure which i'm not fond of.
 
brightcolours said:
If there is no aperture indication, how can Canon simulate a certain aperture??
Video mode does not use exposure simulation. It uses actual exposure.
It is not a bug. Exposure simulation simulates the exposure of a closed aperture, while the aperture actually is open. The camera needs to know aperture and aperture setting in order to simulate anything.
It has nothing to do with that.
Yes, use an adapter with focus confirmation chip. Or turn off Exposure simulation.
No, we should not. You should start to understand what "exposure simulation" means.
Click to expand...
How to turn off the Exposure Simulation?
 
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