As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.

Started Aug 13, 2013 | Discussions thread
John Miles
OP John Miles Veteran Member • Posts: 6,919
Re: As an enthusiast the camera market is depressing.

CharlesB58 wrote:

John Miles wrote:

CharlesB58 wrote:

John Miles wrote:

I simply detest the fact that in being an enthusiast I am placed in a minority that has little bearing in the way manufacturers design and promote cameras.

So it's somehow news to you that companies design products that will appeal to the broadest market and so be most profitable? I suppose you think they should focus more on the segment that makes up about 5% of the total market?

It appears to me now that the only viable equipment route is DSLR. Beyond that the often truly pathetic camera designs that are released offer no redeeming qualities that might tempt the enthusiast.

Then just buy a DSLR, and save the whining for how much it fails to meet your expectations, rather than whining about that being the only viable choice for you.

DLSR's are not an option for me personally, but I draw your attention to a response where I try and show how the manufacturers supply camera systems with inconsistancy:

Why do camera designers fail so comprehensively to create and maintain a check list of camera features that build into a competent camera? It is infuriating when a design is released with 5 of 6 of the major points you were looking for. For a market so diverse you would think that options beyond the DSLR would be available.

Because, just maybe, your "5 of 6" is such a narrow set of expectations, and that most other people accept that there is no perfect, one size fits all camera, with 5 of 6 major points actually being pretty good.

In fact all I want to do is take pictures of people in small groups at gatherings, through a day when the camera will have gone to standby, need an EV shift, and where I want a small group of people all in focus at a currently achievable 18m away in tight frame. Beyond that I will accept any compromise, as I do now by accepting the small sensor. So I currently capture any group between 3 and 18m distant in 4 seconds, and do you think I can find a replacement camera that can get anywhere near that time for an EV adjusted shot - no. I have walked the crowds with DSLR packers at my side, and as we chat it is the FZ50 that clocks the shots all the time, and the DSLR that take some of those shots to higher quality some of the time. But for me, since people readily accept laugher captured on a phone camera, I settle for the lesser image quality very happily. But since my faithful FZ50 has conked out 3 times on holiday now, I must currently by another on Ebay to continue my photography.

The small in the hands, small focal range camera abounds, with countless options available. Why are so few trying to be different if they are already struggling with current sales? There are gaping holes in the camera supply market that are not being explored. Where are the superzoom 4/3's? Where are the full frame compacts? Where is the wealth of 2/3" cameras.

Not sure how to reply to someone who is so ignorant of the fact that manufacturers are about making a profit, not attempting to fill niches with cameras that may cost more to develop and produce than they will ever make in profits, just to satisfy a few complainers.

I speak more broadly in the link I gave above. Surely you see sense in that.

I know people will instantly respond with a host of reasons why a certain type will not happen, but that is irrelevant. The camera market is suffering and the manufacturers need to experiment.

If you understood that they are experimenting, and that most camera development has 3 to 5 year R&D cycle, during which time unexpected changes in both the market and technology can completely alter development plans, you would know it's not irrelevant.

I have yet to identify a cycle, and find the notion of one interesting.

Why did Olympus make in body IS and Panasonic in lens IS? Why did they bother agreeing the 4/3" format and then cock that bit up? Somewhere along the line error is building on error to make long term camera ownership a shambles. Who is prepared to commit to a camera system that might not be there next year? How many of us can actually genuinely afford to change entire systems THAT often.

Why does one person drive Ford and another Toyota? Sheesh, do you ever actually think about some of the things you write?

Do you not see that, had the two companies agreed the IS position, as well as the mount, greater versatility in lens choice would have benefitted the system at no extra cost to the manufacturers?

The more I look at it the more I can see the poor state the camera market is in. From inclusion of movie potential in camera design to the wasteland that is the manual zoom superzoom market, I have many personal reasons to consider the camera choice before me ZERO. But I am certain that, for whatever reasons, I am not alone in considering the market flooded yet optionless.

LOL "wasteland that is manual zoom superzoom". So you are practically alone in your stand as a big fan of such a camera. If the potential had been realized, manufacturers would have responded. Just because you think certain things are a great idea, doesn't make them so.

But my photographic demands are so simple. That they are not met in so vast a market is bewildering

Stop whining and just go take photos.

You were worth the read right up to that unnecessary throw away.

Looks to me like your dissatisfaction comes down to a combination of lack of understanding (not knowing that camera development involves a 3 to 5 year R&D cycle, meaning the cameras we are seeing today were first conceived 3 to 5 years ago), self-absorption (why can't they make a camera just for MEEEEE!!!) and lack of ability. I take event photos of groups, in focus and framed well, with my DSLR in a matter of a couple of seconds. If you think your beloved Panasonic FZ50 (which is a nice camera) is the only camera that can accomplish what you want (while literally thousands of people accomplish the same sort of thing with other cameras) then it's pretty obvious where the shortcoming lies.

I've stood alongside so many with DSLR's to know that, whilst fabulous cameras, the FZ50 always sees the day out with more and better shots, despite my inability it seems.

It's simple: it is not, despite your mind set, all about you.

Nore do I wish any thread to be. But the first responders always set the tone to make it so. Others reply later with much more informed opinion and great discussions to read and reply to.

Panasonic chose lens IS, Olympus IBIS, because each has advantages and disadvantages. For instance: in lens IBIS is generally better for video and, guess what: Panasonic has emphasized video capability with most of its m4/3 offerings. I bet you didn't know that bit about which IBIS has been better for video, did you?

Nor do I care - frankly.

That is my point: try learning more about the subject before engaging in these sorts of rant which mostly demonstrate what you don't know.

I know more than you; by a mile. That's why others join in the conversation later on so we can actually get on with the topic of the thread.

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If, in my lifetime, I will have produced just one image that makes a real difference in the life of another, I will have achieved my highest goal as a photographer.

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The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright, non-extending Leica 35-420mm F2.8-3.7 lens. I live in hope that Mr Ichiro Kitao, Mr Michiharu Uematsu and Mr Yoshiyuki Inoue have triggered the update to the FZ50. Please update the FZ50. It is unique and users of it cannot update without compromise of one or more of its combination of features. Full tribute here: . Performace diagram here:

 John Miles's gear list:John Miles's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 +1 more
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