Reading mode: Light Dark

What's with A99's tiny EVF or: How I wish SONY's next FF will have giant EVF

Go to last post
Making it smaller will make it harder to compose, that s for sure.

Making it bigger will make your life easier to compose that s for sure.

Coming from Nikon D70 > Nikon D300s > Sony a900. I know which camera is easier to compose with. :)
--
All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.

Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.
 
I haven't read through all the replies so forgive me if someone has already stated this.

You can only compare magnification ratios directly if both cameras use the same sensor size.Manufacturers use a 50mm lens to derive the magnification ratios for their specs.But using a 50mm on full frame vs. an aps-c sensor yields different results.For more info on this you may want to check out this.

http://snapsort.com/learn/viewfinder-size

The A99 actually has the same size viewfinder as the 5D mark III and 6D,and is slightly bigger than D800 and D600.Which places it in a tie for largest viewfinder in it's class.

Robert
 
Steen Bay said:
Don't think that a bigger EVF necessarily will be better. Maybe a bigger EVF just would make it more difficult to compose the image.
Click to expand...
As I said earlier, there is a theoretical limit beyond which increasing the viewfinder size ceases to be an improvement and becomes a liability. Bigger is not always better.
 
I am sure if one camera maker was making 0.9x off/evf, one will certainly not complain about it.

I don t buy that kind of argument, as it does not help the customers.

Have you used an OM 1 before?
--
All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.

Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.
 
Think what I am talking about is what is possible now for 2014

There is many things people thought they did not need, until they have it.

Apple proved that. Time and Time again. There is many things we accept now, and many have argued was not needed. What was inadequate about hard lines and pay phones? If I think about it my phone bill did not go down, it went Up with Smartphones. Do we really need smartphones? do we need them the size of the worlds #1 selling phone now the Galaxy and the note. Not to mention the tablets people use to record video and pics with.

Current things being "adequate" does not sell "More" or give you larger market share.

I am not saying "every" Sony camera has to have a larger EVF ... just the TOP PRO model.

As does the 1D ... sometimes it's not always about the number of users. It's about how those users might influence other buyers. And how a Top Tier product has a Hero effect "down line".

The current Sony example is the us$ 3,000 RX1 ... expensive , limited user base , 35mm prime ... but changes the perception of the Sony camera div. and helps sell RX100

The EVF like a "computer monitor" is what you use (see). IF you are a PRO you interact with it even more and for longer periods of time.

For example, on any Marathon shoot ... I could be looking thru the EVF for over 6 hours straight. and shoot thousands of shots. The problem is 100% OVF is good enough N & C has been proving that on a DSLR. Trying to get those shooters to switch to EVF is the problem. ask ANY PRO.

I am not talking about the a99 "really" :) ... the a99 is basically discontinued. We are "really" talking about the Future PDAF/CDAF new cameras for 2014. and the TOP of the FOOD Chain PRO camera to come.

What was done on the a99 is history. What is hopefully "possible" in 2014 is fun to talk about. :)

HG

Eleson said:
Eleson wrote:

So, which better EVF's was around (at fairly reasonable prices) at the time of the announcement of the camera?
And to add to that, how many users finds the EVF size inadequate ?
Adding a bigger and more expensive would be a solution without a problem, and that money would have been better spent on other parts of the camera.
Click to expand...
 
Hawaii-geek said:
Hawaii-geek wrote:

Think what I am talking about is what is possible now for 2014
Click to expand...
That's for sure, but it was possible a while ago as well. Some companies have been lazy.

Hawaii-geek said:
There is many things people thought they did not need, until they have it.
Click to expand...
That's for sure. I am also certain that if cameras had 0.95x magnification on their FF cameras, they will certainly NOT complain about it. I will be a very happy chap!
Hawaii-geek said:
I am not saying "every" Sony camera has to have a larger EVF ... just the TOP PRO model.
Click to expand...
At the moment, Sony does NOT have any pro model (type 1DX, D4) in their lineup, and certainly does NOT have professional customer service (for pros).

Hawaii-geek said:
As does the 1D ... sometimes it's not always about the number of users. It's about how those users might influence other buyers. And how a Top Tier product has a Hero effect "down line".

The current Sony example is the us$ 3,000 RX1 ... expensive , limited user base , 35mm prime ... but changes the perception of the Sony camera div. and helps sell RX100
Click to expand...
I guess, though those cameras are pretty much useless for a lot of types of photography. Heck, the RX1 is good for street photography, but cannot excel in portraiture, sports, wildlife, even landscapes. It is a nice all around camera, but cannot excel because of the fixed lens. I will never purchase something like that as the system is way too limited for what I do. Furthermore no OVF no EVF unless you pay a premium, which is a crazy concept.

Hawaii-geek said:
The EVF like a "computer monitor" is what you use (see). IF you are a PRO you interact with it even more and for longer periods of time.
Click to expand...
Sure, but pros know how to use their cameras, so OVF or EVF does not matter here.

Hawaii-geek said:
For example, on any Marathon shoot ... I could be looking thru the EVF for over 6 hours straight. and shoot thousands of shots. The problem is 100% OVF is good enough N & C has been proving that on a DSLR. Trying to get those shooters to switch to EVF is the problem. ask ANY PRO.
Click to expand...
Very true. The EVF is a nice gadget, but OVF still remains strong as it is mostly used for composition. With PRO camera, the metering is so good that it is unlikely you will miss your shot unless you do not know what you are doing. Most pros know their stuff, well, I certainly hope so.

Hawaii-geek said:
I am not talking about the a99 "really" :) ... the a99 is basically discontinued. We are "really" talking about the Future PDAF/CDAF new cameras for 2014. and the TOP of the FOOD Chain PRO camera to come.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's a strange reality. I feel sorry for those who have purchased the a99 (which is a good camera). It probably does not feel good to know that the state-of-the-art SLT design is being discontinued because Sony realized mirrorless was the way to go.

Hawaii-geek said:
What was done on the a99 is history. What is hopefully "possible" in 2014 is fun to talk about. :)
Click to expand...
Yup, I am looking forward to this new camera design.

Hawaii-geek said:
HG
Click to expand...
Cheers,

moimoi
Hawaii-geek said:
Hawaii-geek said:
Eleson wrote:

So, which better EVF's was around (at fairly reasonable prices) at the time of the announcement of the camera?
And to add to that, how many users finds the EVF size inadequate ?
Adding a bigger and more expensive would be a solution without a problem, and that money would have been better spent on other parts of the camera.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
moimoi said:
moimoi wrote:

I am sure if one camera maker was making 0.9x off/evf, one will certainly not complain about it.

I don t buy that kind of argument, as it does not help the customers.

Have you used an OM 1 before?
Click to expand...
I think I have, but it was a long time ago.

A counter-question: How big do you guys suppose a viewfinder must be before you stop wanting it to be any bigger?
 
sybersitizen said:
sybersitizen wrote:

A counter-question: How big do you guys suppose a viewfinder must be before you stop wanting it to be any bigger?
Click to expand...
Personally, I think 0.90x is really nice, bigger would be even better, but the 0.90x threshold would be fantastic. In the digital era, we are way behind as far as the size of the view finder is concerned.
 
moimoi,

+1

We agree.

but I think EVF "could" be useful on a sports shoot even for PRO's. because of the JPG output.

WB comes to mind, in changing light. To see it in the EVF is helpful. Particularly that early morning shoot before the sun rises and when it goes from night, to shadow to full sun all in the same spot.

and if SONY ever does ZEBRA Highlight blinkys in the EVF , for me that would be Huge. the Histogram for me is Useless. I want to see where the blowouts are. And I think every sports shooter I know of uses Blinkys on review.

with EVF you really never have to review. even in changing light. and review does not require a Hoodman during a bright day shoot. Sounds like a minor thing, but not having to carry it is nice.

and with OVF I really hate it when I forget my Hoodman on a bright day. Which is a lot in Hawaii.

and you do know many a sports shoot are not done by full time working sports shooting PROs. :)

I am just saying.

Thank you for commenting,

HG

moimoi said:
moimoi wrote:
moimoi said:
Hawaii-geek wrote:

Think what I am talking about is what is possible now for 2014
Click to expand...
That's for sure, but it was possible a while ago as well. Some companies have been lazy.
moimoi said:
There is many things people thought they did not need, until they have it.
Click to expand...
That's for sure. I am also certain that if cameras had 0.95x magnification on their FF cameras, they will certainly NOT complain about it. I will be a very happy chap!
moimoi said:
I am not saying "every" Sony camera has to have a larger EVF ... just the TOP PRO model.
Click to expand...
At the moment, Sony does NOT have any pro model (type 1DX, D4) in their lineup, and certainly does NOT have professional customer service (for pros).
moimoi said:
As does the 1D ... sometimes it's not always about the number of users. It's about how those users might influence other buyers. And how a Top Tier product has a Hero effect "down line".

The current Sony example is the us$ 3,000 RX1 ... expensive , limited user base , 35mm prime ... but changes the perception of the Sony camera div. and helps sell RX100
Click to expand...
I guess, though those cameras are pretty much useless for a lot of types of photography. Heck, the RX1 is good for street photography, but cannot excel in portraiture, sports, wildlife, even landscapes. It is a nice all around camera, but cannot excel because of the fixed lens. I will never purchase something like that as the system is way too limited for what I do. Furthermore no OVF no EVF unless you pay a premium, which is a crazy concept.
moimoi said:
The EVF like a "computer monitor" is what you use (see). IF you are a PRO you interact with it even more and for longer periods of time.
Click to expand...
Sure, but pros know how to use their cameras, so OVF or EVF does not matter here.
moimoi said:
For example, on any Marathon shoot ... I could be looking thru the EVF for over 6 hours straight. and shoot thousands of shots. The problem is 100% OVF is good enough N & C has been proving that on a DSLR. Trying to get those shooters to switch to EVF is the problem. ask ANY PRO.
Click to expand...
Very true. The EVF is a nice gadget, but OVF still remains strong as it is mostly used for composition. With PRO camera, the metering is so good that it is unlikely you will miss your shot unless you do not know what you are doing. Most pros know their stuff, well, I certainly hope so.
moimoi said:
I am not talking about the a99 "really" :) ... the a99 is basically discontinued. We are "really" talking about the Future PDAF/CDAF new cameras for 2014. and the TOP of the FOOD Chain PRO camera to come.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's a strange reality. I feel sorry for those who have purchased the a99 (which is a good camera). It probably does not feel good to know that the state-of-the-art SLT design is being discontinued because Sony realized mirrorless was the way to go.
moimoi said:
What was done on the a99 is history. What is hopefully "possible" in 2014 is fun to talk about. :)
Click to expand...
Yup, I am looking forward to this new camera design.
moimoi said:
HG
Click to expand...
Cheers,

moimoi
moimoi said:
moimoi said:
Eleson wrote:

So, which better EVF's was around (at fairly reasonable prices) at the time of the announcement of the camera?
And to add to that, how many users finds the EVF size inadequate ?
Adding a bigger and more expensive would be a solution without a problem, and that money would have been better spent on other parts of the camera.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
What matters is the effective size (combo of magnification and crop factor).

At the moment, the biggest OVF has 0.76x which is not very big.

ww.neocamera.com/article/viewfinder_sizes

Link

--
All harsh, impolite and/or unreasonable replies will be simply ignored.
Measurebators are out of my world, photography is not about babbling behind a computer... but rather being out of your home, shoot and share photographs with other people. Shoot and Share...Thanks.
 
Last edited:
moimoi said:
moimoi wrote:
moimoi said:
sybersitizen wrote:

A counter-question: How big do you guys suppose a viewfinder must be before you stop wanting it to be any bigger?
Click to expand...
Personally, I think 0.90x is really nice, bigger would be even better, but the 0.90x threshold would be fantastic. In the digital era, we are way behind as far as the size of the view finder is concerned.
Click to expand...
 
Steen Bay said:
Steen Bay wrote:

I used an old Canon AE-1 until I got my first digital camera. Guess that the OVF on AE-1 was about the same size as on OM-1.
Click to expand...
Not really:

Canon AE-1: .86x magnification, 94% coverage

Olympus OM-1: 0.92x magnification, 97% coverage

This difference is actually significant!

The thing is that there is absolutely no reason to have smaller OVF/EVF in modern dSLR. The main reason is mostly concerned with making larger margins in profits (as the good-quality pentaprisms are expensive). That's about it.
 
I was also disappointed with the A99's VF compared to my A900. I'm not against EF's but would have liked it to be larger. I suspect that Sony were economising by using the same VF in several different cameras ?


--
Keith C
 
Technically its very easy to magnify 2,4 MPx EVF to 2x. But nobody does it. Because its not comfortable and usable.

Bigger is not always better.
 
jackgreen said:
jackgreen wrote:

I think you didn't understand the difference between size of EVF and magnification of EVF. Latter is pure choice of engineers, based on best UX. Being a99 shooter (more than 10 000 images in last 3 months), can't address your "issue".
Click to expand...
 
Peiasdf said:
The point is, the only thing SONY needs to change to increase the magnification of the EVF is the lens after the LCD/OLCD.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? I don't really know, but I would think that just adding higher magnification would involve sacrificing something else like uniformity of focus and/or or eyepoint characteristics, and/or possible other factors. But if you think that is the key, there are add-on magnifiers that you can try.
Peiasdf said:
I wish SONY up the ante on EVF quality on A99 but they didn’t. Oh well.
Click to expand...
That sounds a lot more reasonable than the way you phrased the original 'tiny' premise.
 
Keit ll said:
Keit ll wrote:

I was also disappointed with the A99's VF compared to my A900. I'm not against EF's but would have liked it to be larger. I suspect that Sony were economising by using the same VF in several different cameras ?
Click to expand...
Yes, though the difference is not that huge. But you are correct, the magnification is 0.71x for the a99, and 0.74x for the a900. I also consider this change as a step backward.

I think the Minolta team did a great job at assembling the a900 (Minolta got acquired by Sony before the release of the a900, but it is clear the a900 has been designed by the Minolta department as it looks very similar to the 7D), which is a beauty for still photography.

 
sybersitizen said:
sybersitizen wrote:
sybersitizen said:
The point is, the only thing SONY needs to change to increase the magnification of the EVF is the lens after the LCD/OLCD.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? I don't really know, but I would think that just adding higher magnification would involve sacrificing something else like uniformity of focus and/or or eyepoint characteristics, and/or possible other factors. But if you think that is the key, there are add-on magnifiers that you can try.
Click to expand...
I'd guess that higher magnification would affect the brightness too. If we double the area (1.4x higher linear magnification), won't the brightness then be halved?

sybersitizen said:
sybersitizen said:
I wish SONY up the ante on EVF quality on A99 but they didn’t. Oh well.
Click to expand...
That sounds a lot more reasonable than the way you phrased the original 'tiny' premise.
Click to expand...
 
As Robert pointed out earlier... check this link for camera viewfinder size comparison.

I shot Oly OM-1, Hasselblad, and Fuji GX680 for years. One huge selling feature was the enormous size of the viewfinders.

Legend has it, that the genius Olympus creator Yoshihisa Maitani, actually designed the OM-1 viewfinder specifically for the Zuiko 55mm 1.2 lens. I had that combination. That was the only combination available which provided a perfectly matched rendering with naked eye view.

It was an absolute magical dream to use for vertical portraits. Keep both eyes open and the camera view aligned perfectly with the naked eye view. Literally an entirely different viewing experience.

I've been suggesting since the beginning of EVF, that Sony stop trying to make it compete with DLSR viewfinder. It can be so much better in all regards if they'd just pull out the stops. There is no reason an EVF cannot be magnified to the size of a giant Fuji GX680 screen, and still have fantastic eye relief, and extra nose relief by setting the magnifier rearward.

I want the largest EVF I can view. But it better have first class optics to prevent flare and distortion.

I'd rather have an extra large viewfinder with 90% coverage, than a small one with 100% coverage.

You think the a900 is big? It's still smaller than all my other Maxxum 9000, 9xi, and 9.

But the a900 really shines when combined with the FDA-ME1AM Magnifying Eyepiece. They were made for each other. It makes the a900 view the same as all the film Maxxum 9's, and far larger than any other OVF.

It does not... I repeat... does not affect the proximity sensor of a900. The camera works as usual. I never take mine off.

Sadly, not only has the FDA-ME1AM been discontinued, but it does not work properly on Sony a99. The a99 proximity sensor is blocked, and so the viewfinder always thinks you're looking through it. It works, and it magnifies. But the camera function is compromised.

There is no comparison looking through an a99 stock viewfinder when set next to an a900 with FDA-ME1AM.

New Sony EVF should be massive. That would get the CaNikon friends attention. Make it medium format size. No one ever complained that a Fuji GX680 viewfinder was too large. It's brilliantly liberating.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top