Pentax as first DSLR?

Started Jul 17, 2013 | Discussions thread
Alex Sarbu Veteran Member • Posts: 8,700
Re: Pentax as first DSLR?

Ivan Gordeli wrote:

Alex Sarbu wrote:

People who aren't printing, or are printing small don't actually need a FF camera, don't you think? There is no such thing as a generalized FF need, I hope you agree.

First statement - I don´t think so. printing big or not is about image quality, while FF is not just about that.

IMO you can't see the advantage of larger formats in web galleries and small prints, except maybe for the (ab)use of shallow DOF.

Second statement - I do agree of course. Most people do not need FF, as a matter of fact most people do not need any SLR. In fact most people do not need any camera at all. What most people do need IMHO to take good pictures is invest into learning first of all - by far bigger effect on our pictures than anything else.

You are distorting my words a bit - it was obviously about people who needs/wants a DSLR, and we could even consider only those "enthusiasts". Most of them do not need FF. OTOH, if we were to consider everyone on this planet, most of those do not need to learn taking good pictures; they don't even care about that.

But at least there's a level of agreement, so I'll leave it at that.

My point is it all depends on the type of work you do and your style. For some applications and some people the older camera may be still as good if not better.

But most of all, we are not simply comparing 2 cameras of the same class. We compare 2 tools with different sensor size which implies quite different visual rendering of the subject. This difference is IMHO much more important than the difference in resolution etc.

Is it? In the paragraph above you were talking about "the type of work you do and your style". Now you're deciding this is important no matter what?

There is no contradiction at all if you read it carefully. The first paragraph says what is BETTER depends on your style and the type of work you do while the second one acknowledges the differences are IMOPRTANT.

Important to whom?

Good question. I would like to claim that sensor size difference is more important than (associated) image quality to anyone who knows what they need. In the sense that one picks the format based on other than IQ reasons. However I have to admit this claim is to strong and I am willing to accept that this importance also depends on the user.

Sensor size is more important than image quality?

What I was really trying to say is that the tools (FF and APS-C) are different and these differences are (may be) important, though if this difference implies one is better than another depends on the photographer. Another thing I was trying to claim is that different sensor size and its implications on DOF are moreimportant to anyone than the resolution and other image quality differences. The last part is probably too strong of a statement

And you're wrong. If shallow DOF is not what you want (at times you would be struggling to get enough DOF...), if resolution matters a lot, if you could benefit from larger DR... such things are happening all the time.

But it may be important in others.

I have never claimed otherwise.

Not even when you say what is "much more important"?

If you like to pick on semantics, I can only add that stating that "A is more important than B" does not imply that "B is not important"

You can't say "A is more important than B" either, not in this case. A might be more important, or it is more important for you.

And keep in mind you're on Pentax SLR Talk... not the best place to hype old Canon cameras

this forum would benefit a lot from a more brand-neutral POV. At least it would be nice if it tolerated an opinion of Pentax users themselves (as long as it is presented in a reasonable way)

Actually there's nothing brand-neutral in basically claiming no Pentax camera should ever be bought, because the 5D is so much better.

We are Pentax users; we made our choice. Last thing we want to hear is pro-Canon propaganda.

Obviously I have never claimed no Pentax camera should ever be bought.

  • I am the living proof I do not think like that since I have bought a Pentax camera myself
  • In my original recommendation to the OP I have in fact proposed to go Pentax

You're not the most vehement 5D fan around here, and I met much worse than UnexpressiveCanvas

All I have claimed is that the 5D is a viable option if one is interested in full frame at all (and obviously Pentax is not, simply because it doesn't have a FF in the line up.)

Maybe they'll fix that. At least, they admitted they're working on a FF.

Depends on who is "us". I definitely would like to see more input by brand-neutral people or even from reasonable fans of other systems to have a bigger picture to be able to make a better choice for myself. It doesn't annoy me especially when people offer balanced and well supported opinions. I know different things work for different people and I can decide myself what works best for me based on a variety of info. If the info is irrelevant to me I simply ignore it.

Pentaxians happy with their choice. I'm of course not their representative, but I'm quite confident they don't like being told how the old 5D is this and that, and what should be their preferences.

But what if said "reasonable fans of other systems" are clearly overhyping the tools of their choice? I met many who thought they were more balanced, even completely objective while presenting highly subjective and debatable opinions.


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