Exposure triangle explanation please.

Started Jul 9, 2013 | Questions thread
TTMartin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,304
Re: Not exactly

texinwien wrote:

TTMartin wrote:

texinwien wrote:

clack wrote:

texinwien wrote:

For starters, ISO is not a variable in the exposure equation. The three variables in the exposure equation are:

  1. Scene Illuminance
  2. F-stop (actually T-stop, to be 100% correct)
  3. Shutter Speed

APEX camera exposure equation:

A: relative aperture (f-number)
T: shutter speed in seconds
B: average scene luminance ("brightness")
Sx: ASA arithmetic film speed (ISO goes here)
K: light meter calibration constant

K is a constant, B is not part of the camera settings.
This leaves the camera operator - or, camera control chip - with A, T and Sx.

Voila, the exposure triangle is part of 'the' exposure equation...

That's the wrong formula. It's an artificial formula built specifically to tell the photographer how to adjust the exposure values (aperture, shutter speed, scene luminance) to match the ASA / ISO.

Exposure (photography)

In photography, exposure is the amount of light allowed to fall on each area unit of a photographic medium (photographic film or image sensor) during the process of taking a photograph.

Note: Nothing about ASA or ISO above, and neither ASA nor ISO have any effect on the amount of light allowed to fall on each area unit of a photographic medium.

Exposure is measured in lux seconds, and can be computed from exposure value (EV) and scene luminance in a specified region.

What's EV, and how do we calculate it? Let's see:

Exposure Value

EV corresponds simply to a combination of a shutter speed and an aperture setting, independent of any ISO setting—independent even of whether there is film in the camera or any light available.


So, Exposure can be computed from scene luminance and EV (which, in turn is computed from the shutter speed and aperture setting). This leads us back to my previous post - the only 3 variables involved in the equation used to determine photometric exposure are scene luminance, shutter speed and aperture setting (or t-stop to be extra technical).

From the Exposure article linked above, this is the equation (photometric / luminous exposure) you need:

Hv is the exposure, Ev is the image plane illuminance (determined by the scene luminance and aperture setting) and t is time (aka the shutter speed).

et voila, APEX isn't the equation used to determine photometric exposure. It's simply a formula that photographers can use to adjust the three variables that make up the photometric exposure equation - shutter speed, aperture and scene luminance (where possible) - based on a given ASA or ISO.

Interesting how that Wiki article has been manipulated through the years, to imply that photographic exposure has nothing to do with the photographic medium. It has been changed from a definition of photographic exposure. To simply one of light exposure, which is incorrect.

That is the problem with Wiki a group of individuals can change it to suit their opinion regardless of fact.

What Wikipedia use to say about Exposure (Photography):

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In photography, the total amount of light allowed to fall on the film during the process of taking a photograph.

The correct exposure for a photograph is determined by the sensitivity of the film used. Film sensitivity is referred to as 'speed' and is measured as an ISO rating. Faster film requires less exposure and has a higher ISO rating.

Exposure is controlled in a camera by shutter speed and lens aperture. Longer shutter speeds and greater lens apertures produce greater exposures.

Exposure is measured in 'ev' with higher values denoting more light.

For example, an approximately correct exposure will be obtained on a sunny day using ISO 100 film, an aperture of f11 and a shutter speed of 1/100th of a second.

The Zone System is an excellent method of determining exposure.

Here's the thing - nothing you posted here contradicts what I have said. And I quote:

  • Exposure is controlled in a camera by shutter speed and lens aperture. (Note: it is not controlled via ISO or ASA)
  • The correct exposure for a photograph is determined by the sensitivity of the film used. (Note: read carefully - a film's sensitivity doesn't change or affect the exposure in any way, it just tells us what exposure [calculated solely based on shutter speed, aperture & scene luminance] is correct for that particular film)

And here's the big problem - ASA was useful with film, and ISO was somewhat useful at the dawn of digital photography, but, with increasing frequency, cameras are "ISO-less". In an age of mostly ISO-less sensors, ISO no longer has a place at the table.

I predict that ISO will mostly go away within a decade. For some of us, it already has. I, for instance, have a mostly ISO-less camera. I shoot RAW and almost always at base ISO, then apply the appropriate amount of gain in my post-processing step.

On an ISO-less sensor, that's all the labeled ISO does - it provides instructions that tell the JPEG engine (either the camera's or the third-party image processor) how much gain to apply to the captured image. The days of ISO being a useful concept are numbered. It'll eventually disappear, and with it the APEX equation, but the photometric / luminous exposure equation will stay with us.

All of the variables in that equation are real, as opposed to the APEX equation, with its artificial ASA / ISO variable.

You're forcing your photographic technique on the definition of photographic exposure. You camera isn't ISOless you just don't use other ISOs. A camera where you can't change the ISO isn't ISOless, the photographic medium still has a sensitivity to light, it just may not vary. Without a photographic medium you can't have an exposure.

Your definition of exposure works for a film camera with no film in it. All of the things you say are photographic exposure can be done, shutter speed and aperture, etc. And yes, the empty back of the camera was exposed to light, but, there was NO PHOTOGRAPHIC EXPOSURE. You can not have photographic exposure void of a photographic medium.

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