why not f/1.2 by Sony?

Started May 14, 2013 | Discussions thread
GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,570
Re: why not f/1.2 by Sony?

S3ZAi wrote:

Jim Parsons wrote:

S3ZAi wrote:

davect01 wrote:

Ya, while there are those like you who would buy a $1500, (judging by the cost of the other specialty EMount lenses), 1.2 lens, most would not.

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Novice photobug, proud NEX-F3 owner

How can you be so sure about this? Perhaps people coming from 'down below', from p&s wouldn't. Indeed, I have 2 friends who both bought a nex 5n with kit lens and never needed a second lens.

But what about the people that are looking at nex from 'above', for example pro's who are using an ff camera in their studio, but still would like to have a fast, smaller camera as a walk around setup. I remember Steve Huff being very very enthousiastic about the rx100 first and then the rx1: I'm sure he wouldnt use the rx100 for his studio work. Perhaps he would use the rx1, but I won't speak for him or others. I think the rx1 is mostly for serious photographers who want something to walk around with. Or people with a whole lot of money.

Anyway, if you are a pro and you can choose between a nikon d800 with a 85mm 1.2 lens and a nex with a 50mm 1.2 lens, I'm sure they would opt for the nex set. Not as their main camera, but as a backup/reserve setup. Or a walkaround setup.

But F1.2 would still have less DOF and be faster on the FF sensor.  To get an equivalent lens on the Nex you'd need f0.7, if they're really looking for a possible replacement.  Saying that they want f1.2 rather than the more available f1.8 just seems arbitrary.  Why wouldn't f1.4 be enough?

Why do we always think from down below or from our own limited perspective? I'm sure if, somehow, sony would make a very expensive, but also an outstanding fast lens, which would be bigger than average, but still not as big as a fast ff lens, it would sell like cookies to many pros.

I don't want to bust your bubble here but you need to face reality. Sony has a pro line of cameras/lenses in the SLT series.

Do they even have any f1.2 lenses in the A-mount?  Ever?  Maybe they do and I missed them....

There's no way from a business standpoint that Sony is going to undercut their own premium line. Sony has already provided (in their minds) for pros wanting a small/lighter body for backup/walk around with the LA-EA2 and A mount lenses.

Now you don't have to agree with their business plan and you certainly don't have to like it, but it is what it is and isn't likely to change anytime soon. We all get what you're saying, but be realistic- the people who hang out on this (or other) NEX forums are a very small part of the camera buying public. Even here you are among the minority.

And let's look at probabilities. You think you want a f/1.2 lens, but you aren't sure. Do you really think Sony is going spend the money for R&D/testing/production on someone (or a bunch of someones) who might want one? Not likely. At least not any time soon.

I suspect Sony already knows what the results would be, from both an actual results perspective as well as marketing and sales.

Sorry to say, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I'd like Mini to bring out a 300 HP Cooper S, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it.

That's just my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it. 

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Jim Parsons

I do get your point. I'm not saying that if sony would make a 1.2 lens for 2000$, every person who buys a nex would buy that lens. I think it would be a fraction at best.

But I've been on this forum for over a year and I've seen many many people saying that they bought a nex for their wife or as a secondary/spare setup and ended up using the nex all the time. A lot of people claiming that their nex gave better results than their dslrs. So I think we shouldn't underestimate the nex line. Like I said, especially the nex7 and the few 1000$ lenses.

For example the 10-18 isn't cheap at all, but I've seen quite some people buying it. How many people really need that lens? Not many, I'd say, the new powerzoom goes as wide as 16mm and that is wide enough for many. But still sony DID manufacture that lens. Not for millions of buyers, but for a limited number of buyers, at least compared to the 16-50 powerzoom kit lens. How come it is possible for sony to manufacture that lens and not a fast prime. Is it really that weird to ask this?

I guess what I have trouble with are the articles that say that even f1.4 lenses do not actually achieve the expected light-gathering on these digital sensors.  So, I'd say that if an f1.4 or "faster" lens really doesn't gather more light on my (APS-C) sensor, then I wouldn't want to pay more for such a lens purely from a practical standpoint. That leaves the shallow DOF, which seems more subjective (personal preference) to me, but if it's "too shallow" it seems a bit impractical as well (getting just part of a nose and one eye in focus, for example, which I can already about do with my 50/1.7), but then, that is probably just me.  I think this is a pretty good "sweet spot", so I probably would not be hypocritical and run out and buy an f1.2 lens should it become available; I haven't even run out to get any of the Nex 1.8 lenses.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised to see a clamor for f1.4 lenses anyways, just because they're available for A-mount, but I guess I'm surprised to see requests for f1.2, particularly based upon a smaller sensor system where Nex can achieve the same results with lenses that already exist.  Saying that, "If Nikon can do it, why can't Sony?" is missing what "it" is.  It's not the f-number we're after, it's light-gathering power or more-shallow DOF.  Perhaps it makes more sense for Sony to come out with a FF Nex?

As for why doesn't Sony make things for high-end or pro users, what about a ring flash?  Bellows for macro or slide copying?  Wireless flash support?  It seems like there are other "pro" things that could be added to the Nex line.... But if I felt a strong need for something like an f1.4 lens, I'd just use an a-mount adapter.  Certainly, there are some things that I'd never expect to see in the Nex line, such as long tele f2.8 lenses, even though there are those that feel a strong need for such lenses, but even there, no one is stuck -- you can even AF with the EA2 adapter.   Sony can't even seem to keep the A-mount line with enough "pro" options, falling behind what Minolta tried to do, so someone, somewhere, will probably always be disappointed with some missing option.

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Gary W.

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