The BIGGEST problem with my DP2M....

Started Apr 30, 2013 | Discussions thread
Lin Evans
Lin Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 17,390
Re: I think "Dramatic" is not an over-reaching descriptive...

Hi David,

I wouldn't expect you to like the results and to find myriad "faults" with my conclusions and/or methodology. But the bottom line is, that as I said, it wasn't a "test." It is what it is, a simple observation.

I didn't choose F11, the camera's firmware did that. The frame was taken in "program" mode. The exposure, aperture and shutter speed were all chosen by the firmware so this represents a very "typical" D7000 shot. I applied exactly the same amount of "sharpening" with the same tool to each image so any "mysterious" variable was distributed to each in precisely the same way.

I've already commented that Nikon jpgs are notorious for being "soft." Could I have made the Nikon image ultimately sharper and with slightly more detail by shooting in RAW, converting and carefully manipulating the variables as far as focal length, aperture, etc.? Sure. But then it would not have been "typically" what an average user could "expect."  The majority of people using the D7000 will put the camera in "P" mode and press the shutter.

I fail to understand how you think that changing the focal length on the Nikon can magically make the sensor on the DP2 M a 41 megapixel sensor. That makes no sense to me, sorry. The focal length difference is minimal in terms of the geographical fields of view between the two images. Does it have "some" effect on sharpness and resolution? Yes, some - but were I to attempt to do a "test" between the two cameras, it probably wouldn't represent the real world results which ordinary users can expect.

What was shown is exactly what a typical user would see. I think the word "dramatic" difference obtains here. The comparison is a 14 megapixel Foveon sensor against a very good 16 megapixel Bayer sensor. I don't think the differences are "grossly exaggerated" at all in my experience. I shoot thousands of images with the D7000 and am very familiar with what it can and can't do. Is the lens on the DP2 M better than the lens on the Nikon? Undoubtedly. Could the best available lens for the D7000 do better? Undoubtedly. Could carefully choosing the aperture, shooting in RAW and converting and careful post processing of the Nikon substantially improve the result? Undoubtedly. But the purpose of posting the images was to demonstrate what "typically" a user can expect. That's why I converted the DP2 M totally in "default" X3F mode. I tweaked the Nikon image to get the best from it that I could get. I find the differences fairly typical - that's my experience and my opinion. As I said, I believe the differences are "dramatic" in my experience.

Best regards,


DMillier wrote:

I have no problem with the idea that the Merrill records more detail than a 16MP Bayer. I'm even happy to accept the 30mp equivalent figure people like to quote as a working hypothesis. I'm glad you've provided photos to illustrate it, evidence is a worth a thousand arguments.  But... I find I can't trust this example. It looks too extreme to me and is utterly unlike any results I've ever seen elsewhere.  Looking at the exif you can maybe begin to see why:

- Raw vs jpeg

- F5.6 vs f11

- 30mm vs 20mm

- Almost perfect lens vs what?

I think you successfully make the point that the DP2m is more detailed than the D7000 and I won't argue with that but this example grossly exaggerates by how much.

If we assume this competition started off pitting a 30MP (equivalent) vs 16MP sensor, your choice of lens for the D7000 turns that into 41MP vs 16MP, your choice of f11 on a 22mm lens will demolish sharpness and your use of jpg vs raw is another handicap.  The mysterious Qimage sharpening routines are another complication.

I think overall the result is to confuse rather than to illuminate and given this is the internet will like get spread all over the place as misinformation.  I think we both agree on the superiority of the Merrill but this was ill-advised.

I think a more useful exercise is the one I did comparing prints of different sizes from the RX200, DP2m and D800. I used test shots supplied by Mr Blissfly and it was only in prints larger than 30 x 20 inches that I could detect any difference at all between the detail of the three cameras.  I have the prints here with me now.



-- hide signature --

 Lin Evans's gear list:Lin Evans's gear list
Olympus E-10
Post (hide subjects) Posted by
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow