Let's help Jim Malcolm

Started Apr 8, 2013 | Discussions thread
emem Veteran Member • Posts: 4,216
Re: My take on this ......... again ..

Unexpresivecanvas wrote:

emem wrote:

So let me just get this straight in my mind - we have a guy in Romania taking a guy in Australia to task for commenting on the recent public comments of an executive VP of an American company? And I'm sure others (such as myself) contributing to this thread are not in the USA either. Very odd.

Hi Meme,

The intended slight is noted - but just makes you look tacky. There - now we're even. But it's ok - there's even room for smart alecs here. I've been using emem as an online monicker for over 20 years - it's my initials.

Nothing odd here unless you have been living under a rock for the last 15 years. What you call "odd" is the new face of  a global and interconnected world. It is called a global community.

Nope not living under a rock - well aware of the global community. Purchase items from all over the world on a daily basis, both at work and play. Quite comfortable with the whole thing. I was simply implying that the comments of the US manager of Pentax isn't such a big wheel as far as I can see in global terms  - yikes, there's that global thing again. Why we pay particular attention to his utterances I'm not sure.

I've recently made a couple of posts in similar (full frame/35mm) type of threads and I don't want to fIlog a dead horse but here's my take on this - again.

There are undoubtedly Pentax users who would love a Pentax full frame affordable body but I believe it's a minority. Some want a full frame simply because it's the current "holy grail". I've glibly suggested previously that 90% of Pentax shooters are happy with APS-C. The number just came out of my head and I can't substantiate it, but I feel strongly that I'm right.

If 10% of Pentax users in the world want a FF from Pentax, how many potential sales worldwide are we talking about?

Well now that depends; "wanting" and shelling out the hard-earned are two different things.

Problem with all opinions, including yours and mine is that it is only an opinion. But most of the times we just believe that our opinions are the ultimate truth.

No ultimate truth here - just an opinion. But I still think I'm right about the full frame thing. I'd be surprised if Pentax could recoup the develpment costs on a full frame body. So if they produce one it will be because they think it's a worthwhile investment over several bodies. And it will require a substantial increase in their lens line-up. We're talking big bucks here.

Nobody has hard data about market research and market expectations. Probably only Pentax and the other manufactures.

This, as various contributors are at pains to point out from time to time, is a gear forum. It is hardly surprising that quite a large proportion go on about full frame. But honestly, I wonder how many unique contributors there are to this (Pentax SLR Talk) forum in, say, a month? A hundred? Two hundred? Of those how many are looking forward to a full frame purchase in the near future? 10%? 20%? I figure it's not really very many. Our local camera club has well over a hundred members with 80 or so regularly attending meetings (not many Pentax shooters admittedly). Neighbouring suburbs also have very healthy clubs. Enquiries reveal that while many of these camera club members are quite familiar with DPReview, few of them are regular contributors or even particularly regular browsers. And why is this, I've asked myself? My conclusion is that active members of camera clubs are actually photographers. Very few are true gearheads. They're too busy taking and processing and printing and exhibiting their photographs - because they're photographers. Here in this rarified atmosphere of the "gear centric" forum, it is easy to fall into the trap of believing that we represent the majority of Pentax photography people. But we really don't.

Pentaxians are shooting with APS-C mainly because that's what Pentax sells currently to serious enthusiasts. You won't see anybody with a Pentax FF unless Pentax stars selling one.

A self-evident truth?

If the K-5 series is such a formidable contender in the APS-C market, we had the hope the Pentax could do the same for the FF market.

In the last 6 or so years I've spent well upwards of $10K on my photography gear. Most of my lenses suit APS-C, not full frame. If I stick with APS-C I can upgrade to a new body and maybe spend a few dollars on a lens for around $2K to $2.5K - if I had to transfer everything to FF I'd need to find $5K to $7K at least. For a relatively slight improvement in IQ, why would I do that?

Please stick with your current gear.  Keep the investment and enjoy it to the maximum. Even more, save some money to buy future releases of the upcoming APS-C bodies.

Oh I will. And I've just coughed up for a DA*60-250 - last night actually.

We can only hope they will be outstanding the same way as past models.

So in summary, if you're a professional photographer, a moderately well off photographer or a very committed gear orientated photographer, go for it. But if you stay with your APS-C gear I'm sure you'll be able to turn out images virtually every bit as good and every bit as satisfying as the FF converts.

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Mike M. (emem)

There is a clear separation between the performance a FF and APS-C cameras. Only professionals and people who use both of them can tell the difference.

Nonsense - anyone with eyes can tell the difference. I don't deny that full frame sensors are superior. My contention is that many of the people who lust after these things are probably poor photographers anyway and the step up to a full frame would make little difference to their ability. They want a FF camera simply because they want it. Perhaps they think it will enable them to turn out better images - and the chances are that will happen, the better gear almost always leads to SOME improvement.  So then their photographic ability can be mediocre instead of poor. To use your car analogy - my observation is that some of the worst drivers own the best cars.

And finally - my bare-bones opinion on the full-frame debate is that when all the heat dissipates I'm not so sure that there are the numbers waiting to actually shell out the money to buy a Pentax FF to warrant it's development and production costs, unless Pentax really are looking to be one of the big three. The vast majority of us by far are getting such good results out of todays advanced APS-C designs that we really don't NEED full frame to take quite beautiful pictures, if we have the skill and talent so to do. BUT if it really floats your boat to go with full frame, whether it's because you're a professional or just have a strong urge to own one then go for it. And happy snapping to you.

-- hide signature --

Mike M. (emem)

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