APS-C IMAGE QUALITY VS fULL fRAME AT TESTING

Started Feb 24, 2013 | Discussions thread
qianp2k Forum Pro • Posts: 10,350
Re: A bit more help.

Great Bustard wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

But anyway your analysis doesn't prove lenses designed for smaller sensors are better than ones designed for bigger sensors. You cannot test lenses alone anyway.

The claim was never that "lenses designed for smaller sensors are better than ones designed for bigger sensors". The claim was that in the cases when they are, it narrows the IQ gap between crop and FF.

I can say other way around. For crop to compensate resolution loss from crop magnification (or perceptual sharpness or fine details) deficit, it's a uphill battle that you'd need a much better lens (more than often such lens doesn't exist) and lots more pixels.

That's not the "other way around", but rather exactly what I said.

As I said if you look in different way, not my way or highway.

Resolution is just one factor of IQ spectrum, there are others that FF prevails such as color tonality, DR (from the same manufacturer in the same generation) especially in highlight headroom, SNR, DOF control and of course high ISOs.

No one has said, or implied, otherwise.

Which means you don't disagree.

FF has better IQ in multiple areas, not just high ISOs and sharpness but in other areas as described above.

FF can also fall behind, such as when the smaller sensor is more efficient and a particular DOF and shutter speed are needed.

As we disputed before, FF has better DOF control than crop by using better technique such as tripod if necessary but this is not impossibility. FF can has the same or even more deep DOF but FF can achieve shallow DOF that crop just cannot do no matter which technique you’d use as no such APS-C equivalent to 85L/1.2 lens for example. No mention in low light hand-held situation, it's subject whether deeper DOF is better than shallower DOF as I can argue in latter case, the main subject pops up better.

In general photos from FF has better look, more popup and more dynamic.

All of these are subjective assessments, and the same language used by fanboys of every system.

The better look is from better color tonality, better SNR (less noise/grain even at base ISO) and better perspective (more 3-D look) than more dull and flat look from crop.  Smaller sensor, more obvious dull and flat look that related to perspective FOV (below).

For example the same equivalent FF 50mm has different perspective look from 1.0x with a 50mm lens and 1.6x with a 31.25mm lens.

No -- perspective is a function of only subject-camera distance.

Although you have the same AOV, however due to different crop magnification, the two photos are not recorded exact the same from a 50mm lens on FF vs a 31.25mm lens on 1.6x crop when shoot from the same subject-camera distance, or you back out to shoot with the same 50mm lens but from 1.6x distance. They all look different, maybe subtle but different. FF photos look more popup and more 3-D look because of better perspective.  A larger sensor with less crop magnification just records subjects from different distances in more dynamic different layers despite they all have the same AOV.  I don’t have a calculator can measure that but I can see among photos.

They have the same AOV but not exact the same in FOV as shown in photos if you really differentiate between two.

OK, show me a photo taken of the same scene from the same position at 50mm on FF and 31.25mm on 1.6x, and convince me, on the basis of framing and perspective, why one is better than the other.

That related to DOF as well.  Yes I have seen many and myself a few photos that obviously have some 3-D look that not easily can be duplicated from crop cameras.

Pure sillyness.

Trained eyes can see. I also can see MF photos have more popup than FF as said by some professionals. I don't dispute indivisual vision.

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