shooting raw

Started Feb 7, 2013 | Questions thread
John King
John King Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: RAW, JPEG - bit depth and data loss from using JPEGs

pris wrote:

John King wrote:

pris wrote:

John King wrote:

If you want to argue that JPEGs are the equal of, or superior to, RAW files for your purposes, by all means, do so.

Are you utterly and completely incapable of reading what the counterpart actually is saying? Seriously John... in what bizarro word what I said could be interpreted that way? It's like your English and my English are very different Englishes. Oh, never mind. Go on about everything under the sun totally ignoring what is actually being said.

It occurred to me that the above is precisely what you have been doing.

If not this, then what, exactly, have you been saying?

I can't make it any more clear to you than this, and I copied it from the post I already made, so it's going to be your second run at trying to decipher this:

"To make it simple for you:

Your statement that OoC JPEG cannot be altered in PP for anything but small sized prints is simply incorrect. Period. It can, and regularly is."

If this is still so hard to understand, there is not much I can do for you.

To me, anything less than A3 size is "small".

You still appear to fail to understand that a JPEG is like a Hollywood set, there is nowhere to extend the living room, because it is just a facade. JPEGs are compressed to the very limit of their ability to produce an acceptable image for most common purposes. I do not class printing at A3, A2 or larger within the definition of "most common purposes".

The images I posted in response to Green will both print acceptably (NOT brilliantly; but OK) to A4 size. At A3 size (bigger than a double quarto spread), they have approximately the same IQ as a RAW from my E-1/510/30 has printed at A1, or larger.

Every book I have ever read on this subject states that any massive (heroic?) editing of a JPEG file will lead to easily perceived image degradation. I own some dozen or so such books, and they all say the same. Every Internet site that I have visited says the same. My own experience way back taught me in double-quick time that this was the case.

I might add that "heroic" editing can also wreck a RAW file (PSD-16, TIFF-16, etc ... ), it just happens a lot further down the track.

I have used Genuine Fractals to up-rezz images, and it is possibly better than the up-sizing algorithms in CS. By CS2, Adobe had pulled ahead, and is now WAY ahead ....

Ever tried up-rezzing a JPEG? I have. Didn't even bother to waste the paper/ink to print a test proof ...

Anyway, your standards are obviously suitable for you, otherwise you would seek to improve your workflow, rather than fighting so vehemently against it ...

My own standards are suitable for me. If there is no degradation in print at A2 size when viewed with a magnifying glass, that's good enough for me. I can (usually) achieve that easily from my E-1/510/30 RAWs. I can never achieve it from a LSF/SHQ JPEG from any of them. Possibly a high quality magazine double spread (double quarto), but not larger than this, and specially not for a fine art print, even at that size ... .

The attack on me that you seem to be pursuing so vigorously appears to be ideologically based in some way, rather than addressing the facts in answer to the OP's question ...

IF you do understand anything that I have tried to say in this thread, please address the substance of what I have written, rather than cherry-picking a specific phrase, taken out of the context of the post it was made in, and attacking that.

A photographer friend rang me before dinner and said that he had read every post in this thread, and informed me in the strongest possible terms to stop wasting my time - among other things ...

-- hide signature --

Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.

 John King's gear list:John King's gear list
Olympus E-1 Olympus E-510 Olympus E-30 Olympus E-M1 Olympus Zuiko Digital 14-54mm 1:2.8-3.5 II +17 more
Post (hide subjects) Posted by
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow