Best infrared filter for D800E?

Started Jan 19, 2013 | Discussions thread
Joseph S Wisniewski Forum Pro • Posts: 34,130
Things are not what they seem.

ropausa wrote:

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

ropausa wrote:

" Schott offers 12 different IR glasses: B+W makes filters from 2 of those, Heliopan uses 3. Hoya makes 9 IR formulas, but their filter division only mounts two of those."

You must have different catalogs and brochures then I have.

I have everything you have, and more that you don't. But the real issue is that I just read them better.

First, I said "B+W does not sell any filter that is useful on a D800."

And you said "I am sure that they make lots of filters that could be used on a D800. They may or may not still offer a 715nm IR. They use to."

B+W never "used to", going back at least 20 years. There is no reason for them to have done so. I explained why already.

Now, on to the next part...

According to my Heliopan brochure they offer the following IR filters.

RG645, RG665, RG695, RG715, RG780, RG830, RG850 and RG1000. That totals 8 IR filters not 3. Just to be sure I also checked their web site, would be nice if it was in English. They also make a light red which they also say can be used for IR.

Not on a D800. You do keep drifting away from that. But that's minor...

That makes 12 that they list.

There is a big difference between what they "list" and what you can buy, in any meaningful sense of the word. They do not stock 96 different filters (12 glasses by 8 common filter sizes from 49-77mm). Again, there is no reason for them to stock such an insane number of permutations of glass and mount. The demand isn't there. It wasn't there 20 years ago, and it's not there now.

Both Schneider and Heliopan stock Schott filter glass in standard sized sheets, and they will make what you order, but they'll do it when they get around to it. I've dealt with Heliopan before, their time to ship is usually about three months on a special order.

The only IR longpass filters that Schneider stocks, mounted and ready to ship are the 695, 765, and 820nm, none of which will work with a D800.

I did not check the B+W

Why not? Your argument was that B+W makes (or "use to" make) them, so you're trying to prove your point by looking at what everyone but B+W does?

or Hoya sites but on the Schneider filter site which is where B+W is listed Schneider does sell what they call Industrial filters.

Indeed. You get those from an industrial supplier, like I mentioned earlier. I'm partial to Newport.

Except that most suppliers already stock the 75mm or 150mm square glass they need to cut a round blank and will totally bypass Schneider or Heliopan and mount a Schott, Hoya, Kyocera, Isuzu, etc. blank in their own filter rings, and have it to you in a few days, instead of a few months from Heliopan or Schneider. Even if they don't stock it, they'll order a square blank, which Schott can deliver off-the-shelf. Of course, this isn't cheap.

Under the Schneider name they do offer several filters that are Band Pass and appear to be similar to the Heliopan filters for IR.

The filters we're talking about are longpass, not bandpass. Nothing in the Schott bandpass catalog will work with a D800.

So since Schneider owns B+W maybe that is where all the other IR filters that B+W sold went to.

Or maybe, just maybe, B+W never sold any IR filters other than the 091, 092, and 093, and your desperately fishing for something that simply isn't there.

So, let's wind this up, shall we?

  • Hoya makes a filter that works well with the D800. It's inexpensive, and it's in stock in large camera stores all over the world.
  • B+W does not currently make a filter that works well with the D800; they have not made one in at least the last 20 years; and there is no evidence that they ever made one.
  • Heliopan makes a 715nm filter that will work on D80. They list as being a "stock" item, but large camera stores like B&H show it being special order only, at 6-8 weeks (and seriously, I've dealt with Heliopan special orders, and it's more like 12 weeks) at twice the cost of the Hoya.
  • Schneider will make one to order, and again, we're talking the industrial division, which is an even higher price than the Heliopan "consumer" filters, and still those 12 week lead times. But that sure doesn't count as B+W making one.

Are we done now, or do you have some more semantics to quibble about?

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Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008. Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed. Ciao! Joseph

I am not quibbling just because I seem to have information that you don't.

Things are not always what they "seem". You have no information that I don't, and, sorry if this bothers you, but you really have no idea what the information you do have actually means.

You keep making statements as if there is only one side.

You have not presented another "side", just engaged in semantic games.

I am looking in my B+W Filters brochure which on page 19 lists three filters for IR, 092, 093 and 099.

099 is an orange filter that only works with Kodak EIR, their false color infrared slide film that was discontinued six years ago. It will not work with any current infrared process. 099 filters are coasters.

See, that's information that I have and you don't.

Then beneath the listing for those three filters is the statement

"The following Schott glass types for infrared material are available on request: OG 590, RG 610, RG 630, RG 645, RG 715, RG 780 and RG 9."

They will not fill those requests. More information you don't have. Give them a call.

It then shows a graph of transmission curves at the bottom of the same page and adds the following statement.

"the transmission curves for these glass types are illustrated below."

I have no idea if B+W is still offering these glass types on request or otherwise but they certainly have offered them in the past.

I did say in the last 20 years. Schneider assumed control of B+W 28 years ago.

Many companies "offer" products that they have no intent to ship. You can get the filters you describe, with some difficulty, from Heliopan, Schneider, Newport, etc. You could never get them from B+W, regardless of a little lie that schneider slapped in a brochure to make them sound competative. All you would get would be someone telling you to call Schneider.

I have a second B+W catalog titled Filters B+W Special effects accessories from the pros for the pros! and on the same page 19 the same information as above with the same chart is found.

While there are no dates or numbers on these catalogs both list Schneider on the back cover so both were printed since Schneider purchased the company.

That was 1985. There should be a number like 8A1 that you missed. Take another look.

As for delivery times I am sure that we all have horror stories

It's not a "horror story", it's simply how they work.

and not all of us have had the same experiences. Personally I have not experienced the delivery times that you have on special order items from either B+W or Heliopan, although I buy most of my Heliopan from Samy's.

Have you actually ordered one of the Heliopan items that is not stocked by Heliopan themselves and is only built on special order, like the 96 IR filters, or have you merely ordered things that Samy's didn't have in stock, because there's an enormous difference.

I have probably had worse delivery times on some things then you, don't get me started on replacing Logitech Harmony one remotes with swollen batteries from Logitech. But in general I think B&H's time estimates are usually longer then the actual delivery times on most items that I have seen backordered from them.

Seriously, the queue really is about three months on things that Heliopan actually has to make to order.

HoweverI have ordered items from several sources that were backordered at the factory level that took months to get as parts had to be made.

Exactly. Except, for these filters, at the factory level, it's not a "back order", it's a special order. There are no normal inventory quantities.

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Rahon Klavanian 1912-2008. Armenian genocide survivor, amazing cook, scrabble master, and loving grandmother. You will be missed. Ciao! Joseph

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