Koch attacks Climate science

Started Jan 25, 2013 | Discussions thread
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drh681 Forum Pro • Posts: 20,329
Re: Evidence of climate changes

rhlpetrus wrote:

drh681 wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

JoeDaBassPlayer wrote:

You begin with a false statement. There needs to actually be global warming for anyone not to believe it was caused by man.

You may as well accuse the Koch brothers of killing Santa Clause.

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Variance is Evil!



2012 hootest year ever in the US:


World Bank:


Even if not all of these are directly related to CO2/other emissions, the principle of precaution would make it sensible to think twice about keeping increasing emission of gases that could cause increase in temperatures. It may be hard to bring the climate clock back after some limit.

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Renato. http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/ OnExposure member http://www.onexposure.net/ Good shooting and good luck (after Ed Murrow)

And how are you proposing we do that?

That's what I thought.

More sniveling and feeling alarmed, but no thoughts on a set of concrete solutions.

Just the ususal parroting of "reduce emmissions".

Fine, how? Where? Who starts first?

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Hmm, how about some civilized exchange. I was just replying to the poster that said that the OPer started from false premisses, which I understood as meaning that there is no evidence of climate change.

Now, observe I didn't write that the change, which is evident, has been caused by man-made emissions, only that it could be the case, thus the precaution position.

Now, if you want to debate ways to do it (reduce emissions), there are plenty. For example, the typical US citizen produces about 2x the average French (CO2). Why is that? One of the main reasons is the development of suburban housing, with larger units than flats and houses in denser areas, requiring much more heating and the accompanying growth in car use. The French tend to live in denser areas, near work, use much more public transportation, etc. That's the case for the UK and Germany as well.

No, France and Germany use Nuclear reactors to generate a greater share of their elctricity than we do in the 'States. That alone will account for much of the "difference". Add in the ever increasing Wind Turbines too.

The "anti nuke" crowd in the US has done a very effective PR campaign against that particular resource. While wind power is gaining bit in the 'States it is subject to the pressures of the politics of money(subsidies are bad) and both are subject to the use of EPA rules by opponents to block development.

Some areas in the US are trying to change that pattern, like Portland, or Denver, developing better public transportation systems and hel[ing people live near they job places and their kid's school.

I think Ed Glaeser, the Harvard economist that researches and writes about the way cities work has some interesting ideas, not only for the US, but for other places as well, like India and China, places that are on the expanding frontier of energy use.

High density housing near public transport is not a bad idea, we have that here in my town with two new developments near the Metro Rail station.

But here in southern California Light rail projects have been held hostage by the "Bus Riders Union" who only want to see more buses that go by their house.

So the Metro Tranist Authority which is controlled by polititians in thrall to "economically disadvantaged communities" shifts tax money from Light Rail extensions to new"cleaner" buses.

This has the secondary, and probably more serious effect, of driving up the cost of the Light Rail when it finally gets approved. Thus putting the project over the original cost estimates by a large multiple.

This is why I say anything we "do" is not going to stop global warming.

Each and every "action" is going to have multiple resistant factors.

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You got a camera, now go out and get a life; or at least a picture of one!

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