Advice on Cameras Please

Started Jan 9, 2013 | Discussions thread
pannumon Senior Member • Posts: 1,727
Re: Advice on Cameras Please

Guidenet wrote:

pannumon wrote:

The lenses for DSLR cameras are heavy and the cameras are physically relative large, because of the long register distance. For practical reasons you need a bag. You need two bags or one big bag if you want to carry something else.

Why are you not carrying bag full of lenses? Because the bag is heavy? By choosing a system like Micro four thirds, you could carry more lenses with less weight. And yes, there is a small sacrifice in IQ, but in a blind test it is not possible to see the difference without pixel-peeping. Most of the mirrorless system cameras use APS-C sensors, after all, and micro four thirds is not much smaller.
Could you give some example of a lightweight DSLR telephoto lens? For example a 600mm equivalent, like the Olympus 75-300 that weights 15 ounces.
I disagree with you about the what is the best camera. Do you always carry your DSLR? Don't you ever wish that you had taken it with you?

DSLR of course have their use. I am just saying that the disadvantages are often larger than the benefits.

I don't consider 19 ounces heavy. Just don't, nor are they large for what they do. You don't even need one bag. You put the tiny thing around your neck. I don't walk around with a bag full of lenses because I don't need a bag full of lenses unless the assignment called for it and it rarely if ever does.

19 ounces is not heavy, but that's body only and totally useless without a lens. 5100D body only is 19 ounces and the 55-200 VR is 12 ounces, this is 31 ounces (890g) in total.

On holiday a bag full of gear stays mostly in the trunk of the car. I carry what I need.

The bit about "equivalence" is BS. Sorry to say. 600mm is only equivalent to 600mm. Sensor size does not cause magnification. It doesn't contribute to reach. A small sensor only "crops" the view. That's all. That's why we correctly call it "crop factor." I'm sorry, but your 75-300 lens is still only 75-300 focal length and reach. At the same distance as me, you're just looking at half the picture. That bird over there is no closer unless you enlarge your image after the fact. I can do that as well. You're just trimming off the edges. Nothing more, nothing less. Focal lengths don't magically change.

I disagree. If you take a 7mm 180 angle micro four thirds lens, it is still a 180 angle lens on full frame. Of course if I take a FF lens and put it on µ4/3 (which is possible), the angle of view is the half. What is important is the lens characteristics at selected sensor size. The sharpness of a FF lens on µ4/3 is of course lower than on FF.  However, the µ4/3 lenses are designed for µ4/3, and there is no sharpness loss caused by cropping (of course we can discuss whether µ4/3 lenses are high quality or not; I would say that there are over 10 very high quality lenses for µ4/3).

Crop factor is as a term is artificial. By definition medium format cameras have a crop factor of less than one. However, it does not mean that they could fully ulitize full frame lenses.

If we talk about the F-number equivelance, that's a different story. But let's not start it here. Let's rather post links to the discussions about that subject.

I named a lightweight telephoto I think. The one I was referring to which raised the weight of the D5100 and kit lens by 2 ounces was Nikon's 55-200 VR. I'd have to go look it up again, but it's 2 ounces more than the 18-55 VR which also has a trivial weight. These inexpensive DX lenses for DSLRs are very very light and pretty small as well. The only size difference from say a NEX lens is going to be that registration length you mentioned. Maybe half an inch. Couple of ounces and half an inch certainly would break my back. Might crush a rose petal too.

We are both talking about lightweight lenses. On µ4/3 the resolution on a lightweith lens (after cropping!) is just better than on DSLR. This is what matters. You don't get a lightweight 600mm for a DLSR (unlesa maybe a mirror lens?), and that's it (or we can simply call this thing 'reach').

To be honest, I'm not a big fan of NEX. But the difference in bodies is not so much in the weigth, it is more about the size. In fact, I don't like the feel of the light density of DSLR's, but I like the solid feeling of mirrorless cameras. They definitely feel more heavy than DSLR's, although in fact they are (only) slightly lighter.

Now you ask if I always carry my DSLR. hmmm. I'll bet you, not counting work because I'm a photographer and that would not be fair, I carry at least two full frame DSLRs and 8-10 lenses more often than you carry your m4/3 camera. Maybe not, but just a guess.

You are probably right.

My work and play gear always goes with me when I leave the house. Always. At night, it comes in and gets resorted and rebagged for the next day with fresh batteries. That's because I'm an amateur as well as a professional photographer when I'm not collecting a paycheck. I am passionate about having good gear with me at all times.

The question is: What is good enough? I guess for you the limit is quite high.

Do I expect everyone to carry their gear most everywhere? No, but I do expect grown men not to whine about carrying a 20 oz camera around on holiday or a trip unless they are physically disabled. Something like a Pentax K30 or Sony A65 is just too tiny and light weight to consider whining about.

You got a point there. However, I don't see anyone whining. I think it's just the question about how passionate you are and how much you understand whether your photography is actually limited by the camera or by your photography skills. I would say that for most hobbyist the limiting factor is the photography skills.

Finally, I think a good DSLR in the hands of a halfway decent photographer makes things easier to create great images. I think that these smaller lines are used by many with a point and shoot, snapshot mentality.

Actually, I think that NEX, PEN, newer GF-series, Nikon 1 and some others are basically upgraded point and shoot cameras, with DSLR-like image quality (and features accessible in menu). However, I think Lumix G(H)-series and some of the Samsung NX -cameras are actually great cameras all the way.

The very fact that many complain about "Big Bulky" DSLRs when referring to tiny entry levels I think points this out. Convenience is more important than IQ. That's not to say a good photographer can't take wonderful and compelling images with a mirrorless camera. I'm saying that genre attracts more of the other type. Serious and passionate photographers tend not to make many convenience trade-offs. Not always. Just a lot of the tme.

It really depends what is the limiting factor of your photography: the IQ and versatility of the system that you are willing to carry or the skills you have. The IQ and versatility is a tradeoff between a 'large system' and a 'small system. The versatility is always a good thing. However, if you are very skilled, the IQ may be the thing you want to choose.

You are probably correct that mirrorless camera users in general value more the convenience. It's a philosophical question that what you like and what you should like. I guess it's always a compromise, but I think this was already somehow solved at the point the original question was asked.

The proof is easy to see. The highest percentage of these cameras are missing many essential controls and features outside of menus. The can be shot in manual, but really are not designed to. Most are optimized and expected to be shot Jpeg and indeed, most of their users do. Top notch glass is often missing from the lineup. Olympus does, but most others don't, especially Sony Nex, but Oly always has had good glass. They just orphan mounts left and right over the years.

I totally agree. Also Panasonic have pretty good glass, making MFT quite competetive system. See my comments above about the controls.

Anyway, just my opinion from top to bottom. I know you disagree, but that's healthy.

I partly agree and partly disagree, but I think we are making some progress here!

 pannumon's gear list:pannumon's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 14-140mm F4-5.8 OIS +13 more
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