Frustrated by the mix and match of features between bodies

Am I the only one who thinks the perfect camera would be a 650D with Wifi and GPS? I guess, I might be convinced to open my wallet if the 6D had a pop-up flash, articulating screen and touch screen. I just don't get how Canon decides which features to put in a camera. They came out with multi-touch for the 650D, then release the 6D without touch, auto-focus in video an articulating screen or pop-up flash, but added GPS and Wifi. Honestly, wifi seems like a feature that would really move a lot of 650Ds but is no more than a gadget feature for a 6D buyer. I get the missing popup flash. The snobs on the 1D/5D forum are quick to point out that they NEVER use it

A 650D with wifi and GPS would be the perfect for a Europe vacation in my opinion. The wifi feature is so nice for self-portraits and to upload to social networks. I hate taking a picture with my dslr (400D for now) then taking a crappy shot with my phone that I post to Facebook when I already have a great shot in my camera. The GPS goes without saying when you're travelling.

I've looked at Nikon for exactly this since they have a wifi module that can be used with several different bodies, but I've heard their wifi module is terrible and there aren't enough other compelling reasons for me to switch.

I'd probably be fine just getting the 650D and living without GPS (yes, i could buy the over-priced module that attches to the hotshoe, but no thanks) or wifi, but just knowing that they make a body that has these features built in is frustrating.

Maybe the 70D ...?

husky92 said:

husky92 wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks the perfect camera would be a 650D with Wifi and GPS? I guess, I might be convinced to open my wallet if the 6D had a pop-up flash, articulating screen and touch screen. I just don't get how Canon decides which features to put in a camera. They came out with multi-touch for the 650D, then release the 6D without touch, auto-focus in video an articulating screen or pop-up flash, but added GPS and Wifi. Honestly, wifi seems like a feature that would really move a lot of 650Ds but is no more than a gadget feature for a 6D buyer. I get the missing popup flash. The snobs on the 1D/5D forum are quick to point out that they NEVER use it

A 650D with wifi and GPS would be the perfect for a Europe vacation in my opinion. The wifi feature is so nice for self-portraits and to upload to social networks. I hate taking a picture with my dslr (400D for now) then taking a crappy shot with my phone that I post to Facebook when I already have a great shot in my camera. The GPS goes without saying when you're travelling.

I've looked at Nikon for exactly this since they have a wifi module that can be used with several different bodies, but I've heard their wifi module is terrible and there aren't enough other compelling reasons for me to switch.

I'd probably be fine just getting the 650D and living without GPS (yes, i could buy the over-priced module that attches to the hotshoe, but no thanks) or wifi, but just knowing that they make a body that has these features built in is frustrating.

Maybe the 70D ...?

Click to expand...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/656648-REG/GiSTEQ_C7_02DPL900_PhotoTrackr_Mini_DPL900.html

GPS is optional on T4i.

also T4i is EyeFi enabled for wifi transfer to iPadiPad

MAC said:

MAC wrote:

MAC said:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/656648-REG/GiSTEQ_C7_02DPL900_PhotoTrackr_Mini_DPL900.html

Click to expand...

GPS is optional on T4i.

also T4i is EyeFi enabled for wifi transfer to iPadiPad

Click to expand...

Thank you! I've looked at wifi cards which could be a decent solution for uploading to social networks except that I generally take raw photos. I could switch to raw + jpeg though. The 6D's wifi Android/iPhone app sounds very cool though. It transfers images downsized for uploading automatically and I believe it handles RAW as well. That gps module looks a little "iffy" based on the reviews. These might be my best options if the 70D doesn't implement the 6D's wifi and gps capabilities.



Rob

Like every other company with deep product lines - they will structure the features within that product line to always keep you wanting the next best model, or even better - multiple models... I thought everyone could see that. This is why it is important to identify the features you really want. If you want everything you will end up with their top product and/or multiple models of their products (as it should be, from the marketing standpoint anyway).

people sometimes say (and think) - a company who sells a product should want to "satisfy the needs of the customer" - when in fact what they only want to sell you more product. Manufacturers want to keep you wanting more. The fine line for the company is - "how do we keep our customers buying without pushing them over to the competition?".

aint capitalism grand?

Atoche said:

Atoche wrote:

Like every other company with deep product lines - they will structure the features within that product line to always keep you wanting the next best model, or even better - multiple models... I thought everyone could see that. This is why it is important to identify the features you really want. If you want everything you will end up with their top product and/or multiple models of their products (as it should be, from the marketing standpoint anyway).

people sometimes say (and think) - a company who sells a product should want to "satisfy the needs of the customer" - when in fact what they only want to sell you more product. Manufacturers want to keep you wanting more. The fine line for the company is - "how do we keep our customers buying without pushing them over to the competition?".

aint capitalism grand?

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+++1 Well put Atoche.

R2

It would be nice if the 6D had an articulated touchscreen, for sure. Count me as a snob on the pop-up flash stakes, though - the only problem I ever had with the 10D was the flash going haywire. I've always travelled with (at least) two cameras - until now, it was 5D II, 600D and S90, but now it's 6D and M. The articulated screen is the only bit I miss, but the WiFi and smartphone app rather make up for that. I've equipped the M with an EyeFi Pro card, too. For me, the 6D is so much better than the xxxD series, however much I enjoyed using the 600D.

Atoche is absolutely right. If the 650D had every feature, they wouldn't sell enough 6Ds where there's far more profit. Well, I've held on to my 400D this long, I'll hold out for a 70D. I don't leave for Europe until May. I hope it's available by then.

The 70D you're waiting for hasn't even been announced yet. When it--or whatever it is that Canon decides to announce next--is announced, it will take a while to be delivered to stores, and then a while longer to get to customers, who at first will be only the smart people who placed their orders immediately. Once you get it, it will take a while for you to learn how to use it. You might want to consider these possibilities as you plan for the photography aspects of your European trip in May.

FF

Flying Fish said:

Flying Fish wrote:

The 70D you're waiting for hasn't even been announced yet. When it--or whatever it is that Canon decides to announce next--is announced, it will take a while to be delivered to stores, and then a while longer to get to customers, who at first will be only the smart people who placed their orders immediately.

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I question the term "smart" people preorder the new model. There's the inevitable "bugs" to iron out after the release date. Recent case in point: the rubber grip issue on the T4i surfaced soon after it's release. I know I'd be nervous about taking a newly released model on a trip where I might never get to again. Then, there's the premium price attached to the newest models, that lowers a few months later.

Flying Fish said:

Once you get it, it will take a while for you to learn how to use it. You might want to consider these possibilities as you plan for the photography aspects of your European trip in May.

FF

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FF, all other points you've made are valid IMHO, Mike

dzba said:

dzba wrote:

dzba said:

Flying Fish wrote:

The 70D you're waiting for hasn't even been announced yet. When it--or whatever it is that Canon decides to announce next--is announced, it will take a while to be delivered to stores, and then a while longer to get to customers, who at first will be only the smart people who placed their orders immediately.

Click to expand...

I question the term "smart" people preorder the new model. There's the inevitable "bugs" to iron out after the release date. Recent case in point: the rubber grip issue on the T4i surfaced soon after it's release. I know I'd be nervous about taking a newly released model on a trip where I might never get to again. Then, there's the premium price attached to the newest models, that lowers a few months later.

dzba said:

Once you get it, it will take a while for you to learn how to use it. You might want to consider these possibilities as you plan for the photography aspects of your European trip in May.

FFe

Click to expand...

FF, all other points you've made are valid IMHO, Mike

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If I want it I Go for it. I don't buy into the "bugs have to worked out thing". Yes I returned my t4i for the grip issue, but I've been happily snapping away thousands of photos. The good news is canon sent me a brand new body. I buy first year redesigned cars also.

Although they will never introduce a camera that does everything, Canon still missed a chance with the 6D. Lacking features that the cheaper rebel series have as standard is still very odd, and far from making people buy more than one body I would suggest they lost a great many sales.

All great points. An announcement sooner rather than later would be preferred. Any time after February will drive me to get the T4i which is fine. I've seen some great prices on the kit with the new 18-135 STM that almost make it too hard to pass up and get right now.

The 70D's price might drive me away anyway. I would imagine it will be at least $1100 for the body only? Maybe more? They may announce the 7D mark II first as well which is certainly more camera than I need. I'm definitely in a tight spot.

I can feel your pain. The wait and see game is frustrating.

husky92 said:

husky92 wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks the perfect camera would be a 650D with Wifi and GPS? I guess, I might be convinced to open my wallet if the 6D had a pop-up flash, articulating screen and touch screen. I just don't get how Canon decides which features to put in a camera. They came out with multi-touch for the 650D, then release the 6D without touch, auto-focus in video an articulating screen or pop-up flash, but added GPS and Wifi. Honestly, wifi seems like a feature that would really move a lot of 650Ds but is no more than a gadget feature for a 6D buyer. I get the missing popup flash. The snobs on the 1D/5D forum are quick to point out that they NEVER use it

A 650D with wifi and GPS would be the perfect for a Europe vacation in my opinion. The wifi feature is so nice for self-portraits and to upload to social networks. I hate taking a picture with my dslr (400D for now) then taking a crappy shot with my phone that I post to Facebook when I already have a great shot in my camera. The GPS goes without saying when you're travelling.

I've looked at Nikon for exactly this since they have a wifi module that can be used with several different bodies, but I've heard their wifi module is terrible and there aren't enough other compelling reasons for me to switch.

I'd probably be fine just getting the 650D and living without GPS (yes, i could buy the over-priced module that attches to the hotshoe, but no thanks) or wifi, but just knowing that they make a body that has these features built in is frustrating.

Maybe the 70D ...?

Click to expand...

Various points have been brought up by others. But you also have to see that the 650D was introduced earlier than the 6D, and it's a very fast business these days, and crop/FF are two separate product lines. The consumer replacement cycles are faster than those of the more expensive cameras, in particular the FF cameras. Look how many 1D cameras there are compared to Rebels. Even though the 6D is a "cheap" FF camera, it's probably going to last a while, and presumably it's the first of many models that will have GPS and WiFi. In the past, it happened that Canon introduced a new, better feature on a lower end camera, before the feature became available in the higher end camera. Look at the evolution of the Rebel and other crop cameras (400D, 450D, 500D, 550D, 600D, 650D, versus, 40D, 50D, 60D, and also the 7D). One 7D, while we have now 3 Rebels, and the 60D.

So, I expect GFPs and WiFi should make it into the next round of rebels, i.e. the 700D, 70D etc., it just didn't happen yet on the 650D product cycle. Size of the electronics is probably not the issue, since these features are built into P&S cameras now. The main problem is probably the battery. The rebels have a LP-E8 7.2V 1120mA (440 shots), while the 6D has a 7.2v 1800mA (980 shots, but no data given when GPS is on), so a lot more charge.

The Rebel battery may not be strong enough to deliver the required mA if GPS is also on all the time. What might happen is that Canon has to change battery size to cope with the extra demands of GPS and WiFi. Alas, the rebels should stay small, while a new battery format could mean yet more increases in weight and size. And the size and weight of the rebels has already kept going up since the 550D. So, we'll see where Canon puts the balance.

photonius said:

So, I expect GFPs and WiFi should make it into the next round of rebels, i.e. the 700D, 70D etc., it just didn't happen yet on the 650D product cycle. Size of the electronics is probably not the issue, since these features are built into P&S cameras now. The main problem is probably the battery. The rebels have a LP-E8 7.2V 1120mA (440 shots), while the 6D has a 7.2v 1800mA (980 shots, but no data given when GPS is on), so a lot more charge.

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photonius said:

The Rebel battery may not be strong enough to deliver the required mA if GPS is also on all the time. What might happen is that Canon has to change battery size to cope with the extra demands of GPS and WiFi. Alas, the rebels should stay small, while a new battery format could mean yet more increases in weight and size. And the size and weight of the rebels has already kept going up since the 550D. So, we'll see where Canon puts the balance.

Click to expand...

Build in WIFI + GPS is a terrible idea. WIFI radio takes a big draw in battery life, when it is endlessly seeking AP (access point) away from home. GPS is even worst. Leaving GPS on any cellphone is the quickest way to drain your battery dry.

Nikon's GPS modules makes sense to me. Attach it when you want it, and take it off when you don't need it. The only downside is that only a limited nikon camera support it as of now.

I rather have a long battery life than a GPS + WIFI gimmicks. They're marketing trickery design to sale camera but provide very little benefit in actual usage.

Try this:

- Transfer 3GB (jpeg/raw) from via WIFI vs

- Transfer 3GB (jpeg/raw) from Card Reader or USB cable attach into camera.

I can tell you that Physical Connection is about 10x faster. Unless Canon add Android APP (like Instantgram or Facebook) to its camera. The only usage of WIFI is a very low speed transfer that drains battery life....No Thanks You.

007peter said:

007peter wrote:

Build in WIFI + GPS is a terrible idea. WIFI radio takes a big draw in battery life, when it is endlessly seeking AP (access point) away from home. GPS is even worst. Leaving GPS on any cellphone is the quickest way to drain your battery dry.

Nikon's GPS modules makes sense to me. Attach it when you want it, and take it off when you don't need it. The only downside is that only a limited nikon camera support it as of now.

I rather have a long battery life than a GPS + WIFI gimmicks. They're marketing trickery design to sale camera but provide very little benefit in actual usage.

Try this:

- Transfer 3GB (jpeg/raw) from via WIFI vs

- Transfer 3GB (jpeg/raw) from Card Reader or USB cable attach into camera.

I can tell you that Physical Connection is about 10x faster. Unless Canon add Android APP (like Instantgram or Facebook) to its camera. The only usage of WIFI is a very low speed transfer that drains battery life....No Thanks You.

Click to expand...

You may be right, but it's something I would want anyway. At least i dont have to carry around dongles. But I would have extra batteries.

Remember the 6D is a relatively expensive camera and is built, in large part, for durability.

Pop up flash = durability risk, reduces sealing

Swivel screen = durability risk, could break much easier than fixed LCD

Dave

007peter said:

007peter wrote:

Build in WIFI + GPS is a terrible idea. WIFI radio takes a big draw in battery life, when it is endlessly seeking AP (access point) away from home. GPS is even worst. Leaving GPS on any cellphone is the quickest way to drain your battery dry.

Nikon's GPS modules makes sense to me. Attach it when you want it, and take it off when you don't need it. The only downside is that only a limited nikon camera support it as of now.

I rather have a long battery life than a GPS + WIFI gimmicks. They're marketing trickery design to sale camera but provide very little benefit in actual usage.

Try this:

- Transfer 3GB (jpeg/raw) from via WIFI vs

- Transfer 3GB (jpeg/raw) from Card Reader or USB cable attach into camera.

I can tell you that Physical Connection is about 10x faster. Unless Canon add Android APP (like Instantgram or Facebook) to its camera. The only usage of WIFI is a very low speed transfer that drains battery life....No Thanks You.

Click to expand...

That's fine that you feel that way, but that did not stop Canon from putting those features on the 6D. Not everybody will use every feature and thankfully, you can turn off GPS because, yes, it's a big battery drain.

Dave Throgmartin said:

Dave Throgmartin wrote:

Remember the 6D is a relatively expensive camera and is built, in large part, for durability.

Pop up flash = durability risk, reduces sealing

Swivel screen = durability risk, could break much easier than fixed LCD

Dave

Click to expand...

That may be partially true, I have no idea. You're kind of making an excuse for Canon which I don't think we need to do. The 7D is weather sealed as is the Nikon D7000 and both have popup flashes. Neither have articulating screens though. Maybe that's a durability issue.