$800 price drop of D600 - will 6D follow?

Started Dec 15, 2012 | Discussions thread
ZAnton Contributing Member • Posts: 592
Re: Problem is a bit different

Press Correspondent wrote:

The most important thing is to feel good about the brand you use. You sound disappointed with Canon and impressed with Nikon. If this is how you actually feel, then you should go with Nikon. But if this is not your feeling, but just a logical conclusion, then I am not sure it is correct. I don't want to hold you from switching, but let me play devil's advocate to help you see if your logic has any flaws. See my comments below.

ZAnton wrote:

First, I am not even going to buy 6d, even if it will be cheaper than D600. I do need that big wheel, and I hate that muffy multi-touch-8way-controller. Second, 5D2 does have troubles with focusing. 5DII center point is good enough, but rest is unusable.

I don't need -3EV-black-hole-focusing ability of 6D center point. I need 4 freaking cross-points in rule of thirds and 1 in the center.

This rules out D600 that only has cross points in the center. You are left with 5D3 vs. D800/D800e. You are active on this forum, you must know well that 5D3 smokes D800 in AF (both build quality - "left focusing point issue" - plus speed and precision) , exept perhaps for servo tracking. Before getting my 5D3 I first bought D800. The AF MA between the center and either right or left was 25 points with 50/1.8, a bit less, but still there with 60/2.8. I also had some incinsistency even on the center point. Also, Digilloyd reports D800/D800e focusing problems at dustances over 80 feet. There is also a review showing 1Dx (virtually the same AF as 5D3 shot of a dedicated chip) superior to D4. The bottom line is, Canon has been focusing its R&D on AF lately and has achieved great results. For the first time ever I have a FF Canon with razor sharp AF nailed every time for just $2,500 that I paid for my 5D3.

A friend of mine bought D800e and I have tested it with 60/2.8. It had no AF problems on any points, left or right. If you go with D800, I would recommend (1) getting D800e and (2) testing its AF extensively while you can still return the camera if it has a problem. Here in the US, B&H allows 200 shots for a return, Adorama only 50, while outlets like BestBuy don't care how many. Make sure you buy from a dealer with an easy return policy, even if it costs a bit more. In case of D800, it is money well spent.

To me, D800e smokes D800 completely. For the first time in 35mm we can be free of a stupid AA blur! Never mind a $300 price difference - if I were to choose between the two, I wouldn't buy D800 even for $1,000 less than D800e.

So 5D mk3 then? Well, 5D3 cost 1000 Euro more than 5D2 on release, and it is still 500 Euro over it.

The whole point of technical progress - is that with time you get more for same money (or same for less money). But relation between 5D3 and 5D2 is "more technology for much more money". They could have released 5D3 back in 2008 at current price. They have basically split 5D2 into 5D3 and 6D. Same they did with XX lineup - 50D into 60D and 7D.

I wanted to get XX camera first, but after they removed AF MA I kinda had to get 7D, which cost just a bit less than 5DII (1450 Euro vs 1700). Now I get a message from Canon: "hey, if you want a good AF, you will have to pay 3000 Euro. You will not get good AF in 2000 Euro range ever".

Despite the list price, 5D3 can be bought for the same money or less than D800. So you don't have a point here. There is no difference between the brands in this regard.

Last, but probably most important - lenses.

Canon does not refresh its most popular lenses, but makes lenses which I don't need.

What is the sense of 24 f/2.8 IS, 28 f/2.8 IS, 40 f/2.8 and 24-70 nonIS, if there is Tamron 24-70 IS?

One Tamron covers all four Canon's new lenses. Yes it is bigger/heavier, but I usually have "main" lens with me anyway. Yes it is not perfect in corners, but it is good enough.

Starting, I believe, around second half of 2010, Canon is putting new magnetic sensors in lenses for super high precision AF with 2012 and on bodies, 5D3 included. Read the AF review by Roger from LensRentals.com, it is quite revealing. It looks like Canon is to upgrade most of its lens lineup. It is more profitable to upgrade the non-L primes first and L primes later. They are coming. You don't have to buy these new non-L primes. The L versions will be worth the wait.

As far as 24-70/II, it is the sharpest zoom ever! Sharper than many primes. Since when photographers can't live without IS anymore? It is a good lens. Mine arrives this week

I am not sure if Canon will release the IS version later. It may be a matter of cost or whatever. If they do, I may or may not upgrade at that time. Meanwhile, a lot of people make tons of great photos with this lens, better than any Tamron, and manage just fine without IS. Nikon doesn't have a VR version either, so again, you don't have a point here as well.

Nikon has new 28 f/1.8, 35 f/1.4, two excellent 50mm and two excellent 85mm wide aperture primes for a very sane price. Canon does not. And even if they will do them, one will have to wait 3-4 years till the price come down to a reasonable value.

I wouldn't call Nikkor 50/1.8G "excellent" by a long shot, but it is a different topic (cheap Chinese build, plastic mount, peripheral AF problems, etc.). Better bokeh, but worse contrast than the D version. The 50/1.4 also is not on Nikon's list of the sharpest lenses recommended for D800. In turn, Canon has 50/1.2 and 85/1.2 that people love, as well as 35/1.4. I don't have any of them, as I am waiting for them to be upgraded soon (I have 50/1.4 and I love it stopped down, but will get the upgraded IS version the moment it is out next year). But Canon has the 24L-II with great color and contrast, the flawless 24TS-II, unmatched 17TS, and a lot of other great glass. I don't think the difference is huge, but overall Canon has a bit more options, plus to me the new AF sensors idea is quite attractive. Again, you have no tangible point here.

Canon is making money on a huge mass of people. They have their methods, they make products for that crowd, but these products are not what I need. Another (smaller) crowd of people with their priorities suits me better. So good bye Canon.

If it is a rational decision, you are wrong. Chill out, have some beer. Think it over. If the decision is emotional - go! Get a D800e and enjoy! It is one of the greatest cameras ever made! ... If you can bare its skin tones in low light

1) In germany (amazon.de) D800 - 2250 Euro, 5D3 - 3000 Euro

2) Yes I am dissapointed. After I switched from 350D to 5D2 my Canon 35L hat to be fixed (some parts changed and adjusted) for 180 Euro, my 50 f/1.4 is totally unusable at f<2.5, my 24-105 - had broken AF motor after 6 month (all were bought new). 5D2 - exposure metering total sh*t (even worse than 350D), outer points - same bad as on 350D. I mainly shoot my little son and wife, and I have a bunch of excellent photos (light, moment, composition) destroyed by wrong focusing.

2.2) I also shoot in high contrast scenes, in the city, in the forest and I like to have a nice sky. I use Fill Light in LR to pull shadows. In 5D2-raw it also pulls noise. That high DR capability of nikon is very good.

3) photozone and lensrentals are the only lens reviewers I believe. And I read 'em.

24-70 is just a bit sharper than Tammy, but costs more than twise as much.

Btw, I am not impressed by 35L on a FF. On 350D it was magical, on 5D2 "just another lens". Considering its price - overpriced.

4) almost all "good" lenses you name, cost 2000 Euro or more. Second, some of them are narrow specialized (TS). I am not a pro, I shoot landscapes, my family and friends. I am not going to pay 1500-2000 Euro for each lens. Especially for a fix. Especially without AF

5) What I saw in rewievs of 5D3 vs D800 AF system, 5D3 is super-mega-astonishinely-insanely-good, whereas D800 is "just" - super-mega-good. For me "super-mega-good" is good enough.

I also think that left-AF issue is a bit overexagerated. Anyway we have a good service center in Dusseldorf which repairs left-AF issue.

 ZAnton's gear list:ZAnton's gear list
Nikon D600 Tamron SP 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.8G Tamron SP 24-70mm F2.8 Di VC USD
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