Sympathy for Palestine

Started Nov 19, 2012 | Discussions thread
eroll1 Regular Member • Posts: 270
Re: Look eroll!

lanef wrote:

Look eroll1, we can argue until the cows come home, but you cannot disagree that the way Israel and the settlers have treated the Palestinians for over 6 decades has created a toxic environment, they have pushed the Palestinians to terrorism, they have pushed the Palestinians into the lap of Hamas.

I agree that the settlement policy was probably Israel's biggest mistake, but the PLO was conducting terrorism prior to 67 when most of the land offered to the arabs in the partition plan was occupied by Jordan and Egypt. They refused to acknowledge their mistake in rejecting the partition plan, and claimed that all of mandatory palestine belong to the arabs.

" ...they have pushed the Palestinians to terrorism, they have pushed the Palestinians into the lap of Hamas.|"

This goes both ways. There is a strong correlation between the progression of the peace talks and horrific terrorism against Israel. After the signing of the Oslo accords there was a significant increase in terrorism including 4 suicide bombers in a week in 1996, which moved the israeli public to the right-wing and was the main cause for Nethanyahu's first election.

In 2001 after the camp david peace talks the second intiffada broke which brought a significant increase in suicide bombers and the election of the right-wing leader Ariel Sharon. After Sharon has dismantlled all the settlement in the Gaza strip handing it over to the palestinians, there was a plan by Olmert to do the same in the west bank, and he was elected based on that plan. However the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit and the increasing rockets attacks from the Gaza strip, later followed by Hamas taking over Gaza in 2007, had convinced the Israeli public and leaders that such a plan in the west bank will be a big mistake.

“Rabbi Israel Ariel Eulogizing Baruch Goldstein. Quoted in Shahak, Israel and Mezvinsky, Norton, Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel, 1999,

“Israel invaded the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 1967 and has occupied it since. The occupation is illegal according to international law which also stipulates that it is illegal for Israel to build settlements and populate this occupied territory with its own civilian population.

Israel was attacked by Jordan in 67 after it warned king Hussein not to join the war with Egypt and Syria. It then occupied the west bank mostly for security reasons : the distance from the west bank to the sea is ~15 Km making it quite easy for Jordan to cut Israel to two or three (This was actually the Jordanian war plan). Don't forget that Jordan had a modern army sponsored by the soviet union. There were also religious reasons to capture the old city and the wailling wall (the Jewish most sacred place). Historical (the hbron massacre) and religous reasons to capture Hebron.

Since 1967, successive Israeli governments have followed a policy of settlement expansion as either a strategic and demographic security measure or as what they consider the natural fulfillment of the Zionist project. 121 settlements have been built in the West Bank and 12 in East Jerusalem. Additionally, there are over 100 unrecognized or unofficial settlements known as ‘outposts’. While all settlements are illegal under international law and have been condemned by numerous United Nations Security Council resolutions, ‘outposts’ are considered illegal even under Israeli law.”

“Young olive trees are ripped from the ground, older trees are burnt or hacked to pieces, mosques are set alight and villagers attacked.”

People who do that are criminals and belong in prison.

“When the soldiers do come, village leaders say, they either stand by and watch the attacks, or provoke further violence rather than protecting people and property.”

Read more:

They are human being like you and I and if I feel insensitive to such mistreatments or if I condone them, I can assure you my conscience will choke me to death at night. Anyone who can defend that could be the same kind of people who sided with and supported the Nazis during WW2. I can’t understand how some of your here seem to feel comfortable with that kind of apartheid system. I am sure even your dog is not treated that way. It makes me spew when I see so many bible lovers and bible quoters here keep saying; “kill them all” “Deport them to Jordan or somewhere else”.

Most of the "bible lovers" here are christians. The political party that calls for the deportation of the palestinians had at most 3 parliment seats out of 120 (~3%). It is a very small minority.

If you really love Israel you cannot support that kind of behaviour, as that apartheid system will not last eternally and when it falls, Israel will go down with it. Return the borders as pre 1967, let the Palestinians have their freedom, that’s what Moses would tell you if could walk on Israel soil again today, stop the illegal settlements and then your neighbours will be at peace with you.

I can agree with some of what you said here, I agree that the current state will not hold for ever. However the only practical solution that is both fair and can be accepted by both sides is along the clinton parameters with 95% of the west bank+territory exchange will be the palestinian state. Both sides have to compromise, not just Israel.

The Gaza strip situation is unsolvable in the near future since there is no chance that the palestinian authority will regain control over there, and Hamas objectives are the destruction of Israel so he will not accept any peace treaty. There will be repeated military clashes.

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