What is this Iso magic?

Started Nov 1, 2012 | Discussions thread
Tom2572 Senior Member • Posts: 1,129
Re: What is this Iso magic?

sensibill wrote:

Tom2572 wrote:

sensibill wrote:

Tom2572 wrote:

Jesper, you've just stated what is perhaps the crux of this whole argument, and that is while comparisons of camera sensors using default RAW convertor settings is certainly important, it should not be treated as the gold standard as some here claim.

Again you create strawmen. I never said any one method was a 'gold standard'. But many 24MP advocates (yourself included) have gone a very long way to diminish OOC RAW as a baseline and to discredit myself, DPR and other select users and tests to establish 100% equality between the A57 and A65/77 at high ISO. THAT is what I differ with, not the real world comparisons or concept that here's more than one way to evaluate performance. Indeed, there are MANY and newcomers and buyers should use as many as at their disposal to make a choice.

The simple reason for this shows up in the very tests they use to prove their point. Take the DxOMark SNR test for instance where the A65 and A77 show different results, and the NEX-7 and Nikon D3200 show different results. Since all four cameras share the same physical sensor, and if you accept that DxO took all other environmental variables out of the equation, the only way to explain the different scores is software.

No, the cameras process images differently at the pipeline level resulting in variable RAW. Some cameras apply NR and you can even see it in the final results (as with Pentax, which is one reason I don't care to own that brand) and most acutely the D5000.

From there it just becomes a question of who's software you use to convert your RAW images to JPEG. If you use Sony then bravo, you've put your faith into a hardware producer and those DxOMark scores mean something to you because Sony's software keeps you confined to the narrow band within those scores. If you use companies like Adobe whose livelihood depends on the software they produce then bravo, you've put your faith into software that allows you to break free of those DxOMark scores.

Why does it have to be 'putting faith' in one or the other? Some use neither, some use both.

Neither choice is the "right" one and both have their respective merits, but to me what has become fruitless is convincing Sensibill of that because any time you try he thinks you are insulting his camera.

Again a blatant fallacy and strawman. Something I now expect from you and the other 24MP attack squad. For one thing, I didn't even introduce this A vs. B debate to this thread, that was your nasty insulting pal theswede. I think his intentions were obvious - it's now about establishing his 'cred' as forum expert and abusive aggressor more than it is about arriving at the truth of the matter about sensor noise.

In truth, theswede aggressively discounts any tests (including all of DPR) except the one A77 DxO SnR graph that shows similar (not identical) performance to the A57. How is that balanced?

See what I mean folks? Not once did I mention the A57, not once did I mention Sony's 16MP sensor, and yet Sensibill thinks I'm insulting both of them here and even goes on to say that I'm part of a 24MP attack squad for good measure.

Way to answer my points... By grandstanding, playing to some nonexistent 'crowd' in an effort to diminish me an A57 fanboy rather than addressing what I said.

As for there being a 24MP attack squad that jumps on people who dare imply the A57 has a chroma noise advantage? I think anyone still reading this mess can figure that out themselves.

You mean addressing your points such as cameras don't use software when they process images at the "pipeline level"? Um, no thanks.

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