Is Canon out of touch ?

Started Oct 24, 2012 | Discussions thread
OP sixgun Regular Member • Posts: 169
Re: SOLUTION... My on camera flash photos look just fine

Travelintrevor wrote:

sixgun wrote:

You were out of line with your post, and like the travel guy who started this entire diatribe by posting his "superior" speedlight images and more or less throwing insults at me with his holier than thou put down of my original post and apparent superior knowledge of light .. LOL

this is your inference as I never said mine looked better since I had nothing to compare them too. I said that "My on camera flash photos look just fine" (see title) since you stated that on-camera flash is something that should never be used. And your original post lacks merit IMO. Use proper shutter speed, certainly not 1/30 seconds like you did in the photo you posted, and you won't have issue shooting 1st sync. I have seen nothing in your portfolio that required anything but 1st sync.

>> You will never get this, so I am not going to bother trying to explain it.   There are many valid reasons for using 2nd curtain sync, including for the pure creative control it gives over some situations.      Most photographers dismiss it as something not needed, or never take the time to truly discover the options it opens up.  Like I said before,  use it once and you will never go back to using 1st curtain under 1/100 sec again.


The image I put up that you think I took with an "iPhone" or Rebel with a kit lens appeared in a national bridal magazine, I don't know why it looks flat and crappy on this forum - it probably has something to do with the way dpreview compresses files. Our images are stored in 16 bit Prophoto RGB format , I have no idea what they do when they convert / compress them - but I can assure you it looks good on our computer and the clients were very happy with it.

Post the photo with EXIF and we will shut up. You won't because it was shot with an entry level DSLR, and/or different setting than you stated. There is nothing! wrong with entry level DSLR's since they can indeed produce great photos ...and I am glad you admitted that the photo looked flat because it did. Not just here on DP but also on your site...the photo is not bad and there is no reason that the couple should not be happy with it...but your settings are just not reasonable. 1/30 seconds hand held, no IS, no tripod =asking for trouble. Then you said it was windy...even more reason to crank up the ISO or stop down the lens. You can fix noise post...but you can't fix a bad choice of camera settings. There is an additional photo of the couple on your page that looks like it has some motion blur and this was surely due to bad settings.

You are so convinced you know it all -  I should not have to waste my time on this,  but  what the hell, if it shuts you up then why not.   Image posted below, EXIF intact.     I routinely  hand hold at 1/20 of a second using 2nd Curtain - it opens up many doors.  We don't have time or space for tripods in our work.     in this case, I was using a 1Ds MkIII on a Pro-M Bracket  with  a Profoto flash in the distance to throw some light on the trees.  and a Quantum flash on my bracket.   My assistant also pointed out we had a small  porty overhead off in the distance to throw some light on the ground in front of them.       This was a very difficult shot, the lighting sucked and the wind was out of control and it was heavy overcast / about to rain.    The couple "had" to have the shot in the alley so we got it for them.    Getting the shot AND not having it look like ANY flash was used was the challenge here.     The shot appeared in several magazines and I think it was in one of Kelby's  pages for "doing whatever it takes" to get the shot for the client.   So merit or not, flat or not -   it got the job done.

That is our specialty - getting shots where few can. I don't care if a shot is flat, or it has merit according some numb-nutz judge in the PPA or whatever -   what I care about is that my clients are happy and that we get paid.  Everything else is nonsense and posturing.

So that you can see what we got with "normal, believable settings"  I also posted the shot with 1st curtain we took just before.   As you can see,   the shot was not usable until we made the adjustments and used 2nd curtain.     I'll say it one more time - learn to use 2nd curtain and you will NEVER use 1st curtain again.

Can we finally put this (p)issing  match to rest now ?

Instead of being a douchebag and insulting people, how about sticking to the topic and offering critiques when they are asked for ? I won't disagree with you that the photo looks flat, but you'll get a lot more respect if you are constructive with your comments.
Is that really too much to ask ?

You are right, you never asked for them but got some feedback anyway because they support the argument that lack of 2nd sync support is not a/your real problem. You stated you don't use on camera flash but your site suggest otherwise..and adding background blur post? Again, done because of bad camera settings or lack of proper equipment. Your choices for those photos show that 2 sync is not a real problem, but just something that you seem to have clung to, made an issue out of it and felt like posting about. So while the critique may not have been explicitly asked for, they were warranted nonetheless to show that you need to master your camera settings and not blame lack of 2nd sync for your mistakes.

A great teacher can be found in Neil. A top wedding photog! He writes excellent blogs about using proper settings..take a look

I never said we do not use flash - in fact,  we  ALWAYS use flash - just not on camera hot shoe and never speedlights.   We use Quantum T5dRs and  on bracket, off camera.  It still is front light so yes -  we use front light,  but not "on camera flash"  - perhaps you are the one needed some guidance on terminology.   Note that there is a huge difference between on camera speed light and off camera Qflash.       Most times in addition to front light we use side light and even rear light.    And mostly 2nd Curtain.    A lot of the time,  you won't be able to tell we used flash but nearly every shot we take, its there.

As I mentioned above, you don't get what  2nd Curtain Sync really is (an amazing  creative tool) nor will you ever really take the time to learn it or understand how it can improve your photography because honestly, you already know everything .    You are convinced that we are doing something wrong, or abusing the function -  so once again - if I have to explain, you'll never understand.  
The shot you want to make fun of and ridicule us for -  the photoshop blur shot -   let me tell you a little about that -   we shot that wedding pro bono because we liked the couple and they only had a  little money.     The hall they got married in was nice but outside was somewhat unfinished -  in fact, it was out in the middle of a dirt lot with no greenery or nice areas to even consider photography in... so we had to shoot in a parking lot full of pickup trucks.    Despite shooting the shot at f/2.0 there was still enough crap in the background to ruin the shot so we added the  blur.     We were not trying to win a merit award, or the "no cliche" award you seem to be so concerned with -  we were making the client happy.   They loved the images  - and that is ALL that matters.
Funny thing is we actually got another wedding client referral  on Facebook from THAT horrible,  merit free image you laugh at.  
 I suggest you pay less attention to what is photographically "perfect" or not cliche or photographs with merit or whatever it is you want to call it, and pay more attention to what clients want and what sells.     The truth is that only anal retentive photographers think like you -  and most wonder why they never make an real money or why they are not busy.   Ignore trends, fads,  "what is not used any more"  etc... and do what's right for your client - THAT is truly all that matters.  
My last advice is to ditch the holier than thou, know it all BS.  Consider the fact that maybe, just maybe someone else might know something you don't.    Not  only might you learn something valuable,   but you might not be so compelled to offer up lame, judgmental  commentary like you have here.
Finally,  I'd  also argue that you if said complimentary things and offered good advice to people that you might also be so busy shooting and making money -  you won't even have the time to be talking crap about other people's work.

1st try - shot with single frontal flash,   subjects properly exposed but no detail in background, etc.

Same shot,  2nd Curtain sync - lower ISO

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