Thumbs up / Thumbs down already being abused

Started Oct 6, 2012 | Discussions thread
oklaphotog Senior Member • Posts: 1,093
Re: Are you a communist? if you don't like it go elsewhere.

Richard wrote:

This is the interwebs, get use to it. You need to develop a thicker skin.

" People who think they know everything, voting down a post of someone that has a legitimate problem with their gear etc... "

You don't think the average person will be able to see that? Personally, when a post has a lot of positive negitive or both votes, I look at that post because it tells me that it probably contains something that people feel strongly about.

"The trolling, egotism, and other things that happen here are part of why you rarely see any serious posts from serious photogs compared to other forums. "

Then go to the "other" forums. Why are you here if you don't like it. I will tell you why, because there is freedom of speech here and no one is silenced. There is always something that is attractive about that.

" It is something that is going to be made even worse by the voting system. "

It think it will make it better. So did DPReview and I think they are right. If you don't like it go to a moderated forum and have your thoughts and words silenced by some dictator of the board who has some huge ego. I prefer this one where people can speak their mind and can disagree with you.

I disagree with you and guess what, my post will not be deleted, what a great feature. You can vote on my opinion and let others know that this is not a popular opinion. I love it.

Voting and free speech are very democratic. Are you a communist? LOL

Oh come on now, it's not that simplistic. If you think it and the world is that simple, wake up a bit. I like the fact that you are so enraged in your post as it means you feel strongly about it.

1st, there is a huge difference between moderation and communism. You obviously haven't been on a forum or list that has proper moderation. Moderation is no different than enforcement laws. The forums have a set of rules, if you don't abide by them, then the post is removed. Every civilized group has to have laws and rules. In the US at least, you cannot defame someone and not be legally held responsible. Trolling and belittling is one step away from defamation. I know a fair bit about moderation as I moderated a popular list for years that had several thousand members, one that was often thought of as one of the most equally moderated places at the time.

2nd Communism in a nut shell is wealth distribution and where everything you have is granted by the state. IE the people work as a commune for the "greater good" of everyone. This is mostly a form of economic control that has in most instances failed, but it does also include social control. Various communist regimes have had different levels of socialistic control, some extreme. Social control and enforcement of laws are not the same thing though.

You sound as if you want to throw out the enforcement of rule and law which means removal of government. This is not democracy, but anarchy. Big difference. By what you write, the US which is a democratic republic, would be instead defined as a communistic state because it too has enforcement of laws no different than any other civilized place.

3rd this is a private entity. Not a public government. Therefore you cannot apply such thought as democracy. Private entities can have their own rules. The goal is to have a good set of universal rules that attracts everyone. But unless these rules are enforced, then ultimately people frequenting the forum will leave due to the break down. If it were communistic, then we would be forced to have to read it no matter what and wouldn't have the choice to go to another private entity to read.

It's not a matter of if I don't like it, go somewhere else. I can and often do. But it's more of an issue in which DPR has the potential to be such a great place, but the lack of rule enforcement leaves a lot to be desired. DPR as a private entity has to walk a fine line between attracting everyone they can to get click thru's to amazon and selling advertising, while not alienating the mass populace. I think that with this system they are going to alienate more of the populace that simply wants to talk about real aspects of photography and get helpful insight and advice. Having a good et of universal rules and keeping them enforced goes a lot further to this in my opinion than a rule less mma forum free for all.

You say "You don't think the average person will be able to see that? Personally, when a post has a lot of positive negitive or both votes, I look at that post because it tells me that it probably contains something that people feel strongly about." But again it's not that simple. What about emphasizing more on the why a legitimate post has more negative votes? Could it be because they forum is over run with trolls, fanboys, and measurebaters, rather than people who actually care about photography and help each other out?

You cannot have a civilized free society without the rule of law, and you cannot have a forum that achieves the same goal without the enforcement of rules. You say I need a thicker skin, but I have very thick skin. I am just writing due to past experience in knowing that many people have thin skin, and that when a mass of trolls vote someone down for no good reason that they feel oppressed, abused, and leave. I'm writing in support for the thin skin folks, not for my own behalf. I could give a rats a$$ what you think about myself or my post. Productive open thinking requires civil debate between multiple ideas and directions of thought. it also means supporting the right of people to speak their ideas, even if it's not the popular idea. There is a way to do this without trashing the person with the non popular mode of thought with demonizing troll votes and troll posts. This is where a democracy fails and why a democratic republic is the strongest form of freedom. A democratic republic supports the views of the non popular without demonizing them and it also requires the rule of law or in the case of a forum the enforcement of the rules.

So before you go on bashing how someone is a communist, do some studying on it. Study the history of forums and see what has and has not worked. realize that there are people who dislike the voting system because it is used to abuse them. Realize that there is a better way of doing things. Finding the best ways of doing things requires debate, civilized in nature. Ultimately I think DPR will do what they think is best because it is after all their forum and it runs the way they want it too. But I also think that the people at DPR will take in consideration how and why their members feel the way they do. They can only get a fair grasp on this with civil debate and not troll wars.

Ultimately, I think that most sane people when coming to DPR find it lacks civility. I think that it is probably in DPR's interest to fix that. I know many people who avoid the forums here because of this. Currently according to DPR has been loosing readership, although not by a huge decline, 5.81% in the last three months but if you look at the max it shows an over all downward trend with some upward spikes over the last year or so. Alexa estimates that 82% of the sites visitors is to the main site with 31% to the forums. Most people are coming here for news and reviews, and not for the forums. if they could increase the amount of forum usage it would benefit them. I think addressing civility is a good start in that, and in my opinion a flawed voting system is not a step in that direction. I think a better implementation of a thumbs up thumbs down system would be like what is done in the comment section of many news websites. An over all score instead of two. So if you have +14 and -6, it simply displays +8. This though isn't perfect as it's still easily abused, but it looks much better to readers.

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